Agnostic and Atheist Friends

Why would you be irate? I really just does mean ‘someone with no belief in a deity’. Nothing more.

Not just God (capital G). Theism isn’t restricted to the Abrahamic god. The quote should be ‘…are no gods’. Your quote would apply to a Hindu for example.

OP, your experience is not uncommon. I have known atheists who over the years became by degrees more aggressive towards my faith and more and more preachy about their atheism. So I dealt with them by setting the tone of the conversation, a ‘let’s talk about atheism’ approach, pointing out the many holes in atheism, scientism and how it logically leads to anarchy and despair. So they by degrees became angrier and ended the friendship. It is a blessing not to have them around, now I only pray for them.

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Can you lead to sources or people who deal with the “holes of atheism” friend?

Patrick Madrid’s The Godless Delusion.

Should be a lower case g. Otherwise it apllies to Hindus, Taoists etc.

No. Atheism is a positive belief that there is no god. It is a rational philosophy, not a lack of thought


…are no gods.

Please do not correct my statements if you cannot grasp that my statement includes yours.

If they have kind hearts and they’re willing to respect you and your beliefs then by all means keep the friendships. I mean no offense, but if merely being in their presence is a threat to your faith then it’s a very weak faith and something else will inevitably come along to threaten it again - instead of cutting them out I suggest focusing internally to build your faith.

I have been a member of Mensa for several decades. I am now a Catholic in Mensa, which I laughingly refer to as my definition of loneliness. I would say that 90-odd percent of the Mensans are agnostic, atheistic, or wiccan. For the most part, we are all respectful of one another’s beliefs or lack of them, and I have had some good Mensan friends, some now deceased. Just, I keep looking around for other Catholics, and I think there are only two or three of us in a local group consisting of close to 500 members.

Anyway, I look at it as everybody being respectful of everybody else. I really don’t remember any of us ever saying anything offensive to any of the others. When everybody agrees to this rule, then I say it is possible to have many and varied friends in a large heterogeneous group.

Right I’ll heed your words and your right my faith is still pretty weak.

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No, it isn’t.

I’m aware of far more atheists who tire of hearing Christians define atheism by cherry picking one definition and often only one piece of one definition and saying that that, to the exclusion of all others, must be the definition used.

Yeah, good thing I am not doing that.

You said atheism is “not a lack of belief”.

That’s meriam webster. Here’s oxford:


So on what basis do you claim …

Agnosticism and Atheism are not two points on a line. They deal with knowledge and belief, which are related but not exclusive to each other. The ‘mislabeling’ you speak of is likely how you’re seeing this false dichotomy. I don’t claim God does not or cannot exist, but I do not believe he does exist. What label would you want me to use?

I tend to like this one,

If a man has failed to find any good reason for believing that there is a God, it is perfectly natural and rational that he should not believe that there is a God; and if so, he is an atheist… if he goes farther, and, after an investigation into the nature and reach of human knowledge, ending in the conclusion that the existence of God is incapable of proof, cease to believe in it on the ground that he cannot know it to be true, he is an agnostic and also an atheist – an agnostic-atheist – an atheist because an agnostic… while, then, it is erroneous to identify agnosticism and atheism, it is equally erroneous so to separate them as if the one were exclusive of the other.

First of all, seeking truth does not necessarily mean religion. If your friends don’t want to be Christian, that is fine, and don;t take the jokes as insults. In fact, if you crack a joke or two at their beliefs/non-beliefs, you might have a better time together. As for the one specific friend you mentioned, just let him figure out his own path, and be there for him. You don’t have to share beliefs to be good friends. I know this from my own experience. I would say do what you think is right, and don’t let others try to tell you what to think.

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