Ahmadis


#1

For some time now I have been reading the posts of paarsurrey, an Ahmadi, truly fascinated with how wrong his knowledge of history is, and I have taken the time to read up on some links he has posted.

It seems to me that Ahmadi is similar to Mormonism, in the fact that neither founder, Joseph Smith, and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, could bear the thought that Our Saviour and basis of the Truth was started in Israel, so they both made up their own religions, calling themselves “prophets” both claiming the “truth” is in their own countries.

I cannot believe how wrong the following passage is…

Apart from this, it was necessary that he should escape death on the cross, for it was stated in the Holy Book that whoever was hanged on the wood was accursed. It is a cruel and an unjust blasphemy to attribute a curse to an eminent person like Jesus, the Messiah, for, according to the agreed view of all who know the language, la’nat, or curse, has reference to the state of one’s heart. A man would be said to be accursed when his heart, having been estranged from God, becomes really dark; when, deprived of divine mercy and of divine love, devoid absolutely of His Knowledge, blinded like the devil, he becomes filled with the poison of unbelief; when there remains not a ray of divine love and knowledge in him; when the bond of loyalty is broken, and between him and God there arises hatred and contempt and spite and hostility, so much so that God and he become mutual enemies; and when God becomes weary of him and he becomes weary of God; in short, when he becomes an heir to all the attributes of the Devil – and that is why the Devil himself is called accursed.3 It is clear that the significance of the word Mal’un, viz. accursed, is so foul that it can never apply to any righteous person who entertains love of God in his heart. Alas! Christians did not ponder over the significance of a curse when they invented this belief; else, it were impossible for them to have used such a bad word for a righteous man like Jesus. Can we say that Jesus’ heart was ever really estranged from God; that he had denied God, that he hated Him and had become His enemy? Can we ever think that Jesus had ever felt in his heart that he was estranged from God, that he was an enemy of God, and that he was immersed in the darkness of unbelief and denial?
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

paarsurrey, and his “faith” need to research some more on why Jesus was crucified. Yes, He was considered accursed, as He performed miracles on the Sabbath, dined with gentiles, and the list goes on, so much so, that His Jewish elders wanted Him killed as He was seen as a threat,

Jesus was not accursed, we all know He never lost His relationship with God, but He was crucified as the people around Him at the time thought He must be accursed.

How can the Ahmadi faith have it so wrong?

As for Jesus travelling to India, and dying of natural causes there, paarsurrey, give me some definite fact on this please.


#2

Hi
Thank you for showing interest and reading the book ’ Jesus in India’ at:
alislam.org/library/books…india/ch1.html
I think you have probably not finished the book, if you had read it you might have found so many facts there.
Ahmadis respect JesusYeshuaIssa, and it is one of the reasons why we say that Jesus did not die on Cross; otherwise he would be an accursed person according to OTBible. Please read the following verse:
Deuteronomy 21:23 “anyone who is hung on a tree is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.”
This is also confirmed by NTBible:
Galatians 3:13 for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
GodAllahYHWH revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi under direct conversation that JesusYeshuaIssa did not die and could not die on Cross as he was a pious person.
Please also read the following:
alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html
May GodAllahYHWH bless you!
Thanks


#3

With all due respect to Paarsurrey, according to over 99% of Muslims Ahmedis are just heretics; their position is somewhat equivalent to Mormons in Christianity.


#4

ahmadis just like mormons ,they are not muslims by any mean


#5

That’s the whole point that you are missing though paarsurrey.

Jesus WASN’T accursed, He was divine, but the Jews in His time thought He was as He went against so many of their teachings.

He didn’t die hung on a tree, but crucified.

He was sent here to die “like an accursed one” to take away all our sin.

It is the very basics of Christianity that you either don’t understand or you are totally ignoring, that is leading you to believe someone like this Mirza Ahmad, who only as recent as last century claims to be a prophet, and surprise surprise, says Jesus died in his very own country. :eek:

How do you explain in the Bible where the Apostles see Him after He rises from the dead, and then they see Him lifted into Heaven?

Is that a lie in the Bible?


#6

A Muslim (of any sect or breakoff group) would claim that the Bible has been changed/corrupted(?) over the centuries. Correct me if I’m wrong Ahmad and Kadaveri but that is the impression I’ve got from speaking with most of my Muslim friends.

And yes you are right the Ahmadi sect is considered heresy by most orthodox/mainstream Muslims due to the elevated honour they give to their founder.


#7

Beloved, have you explored some of the writings of the Early Church Fathers on this enigmatic matter of the curse of hanging on a tree? Very enlightening. There are other explanations than that the crucifixion never happened. It would be a wonderful thing if you were to go back to the beginning, try to clear your mind of the particular view it now has, and see how Christianity understands the whole mystery of the Incarnation, Death, Resurrection and Ascension of the Lord. If Christ did not die on the Cross, then the crucifixion is a lie and Christ is a false prophet.


#8

you are right and we are not the first to say that ,even catholics believe that the bible was altered and its origin was lost


#9

Yet the manuscript evidence is markedly consistent; there are no significant variances. There are no canonical documents that claim Jesus did not die on the corss, for example. We rely not just on “the book” – which for us would be a form of idolatry – but upon the promise of Christ and the guidance of the Holy Spirit working through the Church.


#10

even the christ didnt die for 3 days and there are many things about the issue of crucifixion i hope you read it here


#11

Pure nonsense! :mad: Believing the above, does not validate the Quran, by the way!

Vickie


#12

did i ever talked about validating the quran ? lol if you wanna a private talk we can talk about validation of quran :wink:


#13

No, you did not mention the Quran, but stating that the Bible is “corrupted” since the Quran brought a conflicting message, is one of the ways Muslims prove its “validity”!

Thanks, for the offer but I have no interest in the Quran since I do not consider the “messenger” to be a prophet or the Quran to be the word of God!

Vickie


#14

Catholics do not believe that.


#15

We are familiar with the verse about being accursed, thank you.

The verse states “anyone who is hung on a tree is accursed.” Even if you claim he did not die on the cross, he was hung there nonetheless. Therefore, he is accursed either way.

What you fail to understand is that you do not “respect” Jesus when you deny the fact that he suffered death on a cross to atone for the sins that you have committed.


#16

Are you an Ahmadi like paarsurrey?


#17

i`m a muslim not ahmadi
and the catholics believe that the bible was altered
newadvent.org/cathen/14530a.htm#IV
IV. TRANSMISSION OF THE TEX.T

No book of ancient times has come down to us exactly as it left the hands of its author–all have been in some way altered. The material conditions under which a book was spread before the invention of printing (1440), the little care of the copyists, correctors, and glossators for the te.xt, so different from the desire of accuracy exhibited to-day, explain sufficiently the divergences we find between various manus.cripts of the same work. To these causes may be added, in regard to the S.criptures, exegetical difficulties and dogmatical controversies. To exempt the scared writings from ordinary conditions a very special providence would have been necessary, and it has not been the will of God to exercise this providence. More than 150,000 different readings have been found in the older witnesses to the te.xt of the New Testament–which in itself is a proof that Scrip.tures are not the only, nor the principal, means of revelation

see also
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece

if anyone dont believe that the prophet mohammad peace be upon him was a prophet then he deny the bible and deny prophecy about prophet mohammad


#18

Hi
Jesus did not die on Cross or othewise, is a separate issue, and forgiveness of sins is a separate issue, having no direct relationship in my opinion. This is understood by every nation of the world, only my Christian friend have been somehow made to believe otherwise, perhaps they become sentimental and don’t remain rational or logical. I respect you faith.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.


#19

Hi
Jesus did not die on Cross or othewise, is a separate issue, and forgiveness of sins is a separate issue, having no direct relationship in my opinion. This is understood by every nation of the world, only my Christian friend have been somehow made to believe otherwise, perhaps they become sentimental and don’t remain rational or logical. I respect you faith.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.


#20

Wisdom,5:4 ,fools that we were! His life we accounted madness, and his death dishonered.5 See how he is accounted among the sons of God; how his lot is with the saints! NAB


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