ALL SALVATION COMES THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Hi,
I am interested in what you think about the statment I made in another thread, and the response to it.

I SAID:
Quote:
Originally Posted by john654
All salvation comes through the Catholic Church.

RESPONSE:

Nothing comes through the Catholic Church itself John. It just so happens that the Church is God’s true Church, that teaches things correctly. It is through God’s grace that we receive salvation, not the Church itself. The Church may represent God’s will, message, teachings, etc…, but it is not God.

[quote=john654]Hi,
I am interested in what you think about the statment I made in another thread, and the response to it.

I SAID:
Quote:
Originally Posted by john654
All salvation comes through the Catholic Church.

RESPONSE:

Nothing comes through the Catholic Church itself John. It just so happens that the Church is God’s true Church, that teaches things correctly. It is through God’s grace that we receive salvation, not the Church itself. The Church may represent God’s will, message, teachings, etc…, but it is not God.
[/quote]

The Church is not God. But the Church is The Mystical Body of Christ. Christ speaks through His Church, Christ acts through His Church, Christ saves through His Church. The Church does not save us but Christ does!

I don’t want to quibble about prepositions, but I would say that all salvation comes within the Catholic Church.

[quote=debtera]I don’t want to quibble about prepositions, but I would say that all salvation comes within the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

http://home.houston.rr.com/mchance3/beatdeadhorse5.gif

– Mark L. Chance.

I believe that! :thumbsup:

MLChance,

The exercise is good for me, so as long as the horse keeps getting dragged out into the open …

Insofar as the Church mediates salvation to the world, yes, I believe this. What I don’t understand about it, well, I am trying to humbly submit to the authority that Jesus gave His Church.

I have come to this simple explananation of the statement.

*** **All Salvation comes from Jesus Christ. - (I am the way, I am the Gate, etc… )

*** **The Church Brings Christ into the world. All that we know about Jesus Christ comes from the Church {with the exception of a few lines from Josephus} Right ?

*** **Therefore, all salvation comes through the Church – Outside of that there is no salvation.

If anyone is Saved, even if he/she is not an official member of the Catholic Church Militant, we could still say with confidence that
his/her salvation came through the Church.

-** Whether they knew it or not**.

At the moment of Death we all have the chance to become Catholics !

G.K. Chesterton once said that if every sincere searcher lived long enough - say hundreds of years old - then they would all eventually become Catholics.

I have always thought of this as an “inclusive” statement rather than an “exclusive” one.

todd

[quote=Br. Rich SFO]The Church is not God. But the Church is The Mystical Body of Christ. Christ speaks through His Church, Christ acts through His Church, Christ saves through His Church. The Church does not save us but Christ does!
[/quote]

I second that!

G.Grace

[quote=john654]Hi,
I am interested in what you think about the statment I made in another thread, and the response to it.

I SAID:
Quote:
Originally Posted by john654
All salvation comes through the Catholic Church.

RESPONSE:

Nothing comes through the Catholic Church itself John. It just so happens that the Church is God’s true Church, that teaches things correctly. It is through God’s grace that we receive salvation, not the Church itself. The Church may represent God’s will, message, teachings, etc…, but it is not God.
[/quote]

== It would be more adequate to say that all salvation is from Christ - given that not all grace is found in the CC (see Unigenitus - 1713).

“All salvation comes through the Catholic Church” is theologically awkward, because it leaves the way open to several errors, including denial of the efficacy of sacramental activity of bodies outside the CC. ==

MLChance, I think that is funny, but I, of course, agree with debtera: there is one univeral Church of the faithful outside of which NO ONE AT ALL is saved. We know this infallibly from the Council of Lateran IV, and we know that water Baptism is required to be a member of the Church.

There is absolutely no other way to salvation except what Christ Himself has laid down in St. John iii. 5 and St. Mark xvi. 16: Baptism and unity to the only Church by which any man can hope for salvation.

The preposition is quite important. One is a rank heresy, the other true Catholic teaching. No where but in the Catholic Church is salvation found. Outside the Church a man can have honor, he can say Alleluia and Amen, he can have the Gospels, and preach them, too, but he will never find nor in any way have salvation if he will not enter the Holy Roman Catholic Church (c.f. St. Augustine).

[quote=john654]Hi,
I am interested in what you think about the statment I made in another thread, and the response to it.

I SAID:
Quote:
Originally Posted by john654
All salvation comes through the Catholic Church.

RESPONSE:

Nothing comes through the Catholic Church itself John. It just so happens that the Church is God’s true Church, that teaches things correctly. It is through God’s grace that we receive salvation, not the Church itself. The Church may represent God’s will, message, teachings, etc…, but it is not God.
[/quote]

Hi…
I would be placed in the large category of protestants. I believe in Christ’s death for the atonement of my sins. I have been baptized and I take part in the communion services at my church.

Even though I’m not Catholic…am I saved according to Catholic teaching?

Sincerely
Josiah

[quote=josiah]Hi…
I would be placed in the large category of protestants. I believe in Christ’s death for the atonement of my sins. I have been baptized and I take part in the communion services at my church.

Even though I’m not Catholic…am I saved according to Catholic teaching?

Sincerely
Josiah
[/quote]

Josiah,

I want to apologize for any “Catholics” that have led you to believe that you are “saved according to Catholic teachings”.

Our Lord established but one Church; and it is the Catholic Church. He explicitly said that we must “hear the Church” or “be as the heathen and publican” (Mt 18:17). The Catholic Church alone teaches with His authority, and what He taught. The Catholic Church is the Church of the New Testament. Every other group that claim the title “Christian” has is an offshoot of this One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, “outside of which there is no salvation”. The Church allowances for the possibility that a person who has been baptized, yet is ignorant of the Catholic Faith, can be saved, but only of their ignorance of the truth is through no fault of their own, such as a person who has no access to the truth, or is blind and deaf, etc. But this clearly does not apply to you. Although you are not a Catholic, you are very fortunate in that God has given you the ability to look into the claims of the Church. I would greatly encourage you to do that.

Again, I want to apologize for anyone who has led you to believe that you do not need to become a Catholic to be saved. That is explicitly contrary to an infallible dogma of the Catholic faith which every Catholic is bound to believe - even the Pope!

May God Bless you and lead you home to the Church He founded.

I would encourage you to look into the claims on the Catholic Church.

The Protestants split from this Church about 500 years ago, and have continued to divide from one another ever sinse.

If you truly believe in Jesus, you will become a Catholic, since it teaches what Jesus taught.

Catholic Crusade,

Yup.

By the way, your name has me imagining you in armor. Is it hard to type in mail gantelets?

[quote=debtera]I don’t want to quibble about prepositions, but I would say that all salvation comes within the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

Question: through or within? Objection : within . I answer: that while within is a tempting choice , it is a popular belief that there are a few worthy souls ( while not being directly affilliated to Catholisism ) that will enjoy the Beatific Vision of our Lord in the world to come. ( by baptism of desire ) Through would seem to be the more fitting choice of words here. As the body takes food for nourishment, the body keeps some of the food for strength and life, while the remainder of the food, ( the part that has no more nourishment to offer is … well … discarded as waste. So shall it be at the end of this world… and the comming of Christ.The nourishing Catholics will be taken into " the body" the waste will be discarded. Dominus Vobiscum!

‘Even though I’m not Catholic…am I saved according to Catholic teaching?’

hey josiah - i’d like to apologize for rsiscoe - who apparently isn’t familiar with the church’s teachings on salvation.

the answer to your question is - we don’t know if you will be saved or not. we rely on the grace of God for our salvation - we know that this salvation comes to us through the sacraments - channels of His grace into our lives.

outside of those sacraments, He can save whom He pleases, and it isn’t up to us to say who is or isn’t going to receive that salvation. there is a teaching called ‘invincible ignorance’, which means that those who haven’t heard the gospel, or have heard it in a way in which they were incapable of accepting, may be saved by His grace and mercy outside of His normal means - the church.

we would say that it would be best for you to come into the catholic church and receive those sacraments, as they are the means that He has given us to receive the salvific graces. if you’re concerned about whether or not you will be saved, then you can be assured of finding that salvation within the church (in the person of Christ).

living outside of the church, or even INSIDE the church while living in unconfessed, mortal sin, is placing your soul in the jeopardy of possible damnation.

as far as YOU are concerned, we cannot say if you’re going to be saved or not. you’ve been baptised (i would wager to say) so the stain of original sin has been washed away. but you’re living in what we would call grave sin, as you do not regularly receive the eucharist, and probably have never gone to confession.

God can save you. we can’t say for sure if you will be saved or not. but coming into the church will certainly help.

Is a person who is living in grave sin, as you yourself state, “saved according to Catholic teaching”?

“Grave sin” is mortal sin; and a person who is in mortal sin is not “saved according to Catholic teaching”.

If you are willing to say that he is living in “grave sin”, why are you so unwilling to say that in his state he is NOT "saved according to Catholic teaching?

Since you disagreed with my post, I will end with one simple question for you: Objectively speaking, Is someone who is living in “grave sin”… “saved according to Catholic teaching”? Yes or no?

[quote=josiah]Hi…
I would be placed in the large category of protestants. I believe in Christ’s death for the atonement of my sins. I have been baptized and I take part in the communion services at my church.

Even though I’m not Catholic…am I saved according to Catholic teaching?

Sincerely
Josiah
[/quote]

Lets make sure you have Church teaching and not ‘opinions’ -even if some people think they are backing them up by taking Church texts out of context.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church

herefore, I ask all the Church’s Pastors and the Christian faithful to receive this catechism in a spirit of communion and to use it assiduously in fulfilling their mission of proclaiming the faith and calling people to the Gospel life. This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms. It is also offered to all the faithful who wish to deepen their knowledge of the unfathomable riches of salvation (cf. Eph 3:8). It is meant to support ecumenical efforts that are moved by the holy desire for the unity of all Christians, showing carefully the content and wondrous harmony of the catholic faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. 1 Pt 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.

scborromeo.org/ccc/aposcons.htm

continued

CCC - A sure norm for teaching the faith JPII

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
(My Bold)

To take the example of EENS, (no salvation outside the Church) the CCC is quite clear

CCC 847 - This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation

Really, if you want an authoritive answer to a Catholic position you go to the Catechism - get your rad trad to repudiate this. If they do they are probably closet sedevacantists frankly.

III. THE AIM AND INTENDED READERSHIP OF THE CATECHISM

11 This catechism aims at presenting an organic synthesis of the essential and fundamental contents of Catholic doctrine, as regards both faith and morals, in the light of the Second Vatican Council and the whole of the Church’s Tradition. Its principal sources are the Sacred Scriptures, the Fathers of the Church, the liturgy, and the Church’s Magisterium. It is intended to serve “as a point of reference for the catechisms or compendia that are composed in the various countries”.15

scborromeo.org/ccc/prologue.htm#III

POSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
FIDEI DEPOSITUM

ON THE PUBLICATION OF THE

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

PREPARED FOLLOWING THE SECOND VATICAN ECUMENICAL COUNCIL

JOHN PAUL, BISHOP
SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS OF GOD
FOR EVERLASTING MEMORY

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. 1 Pt 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion.

scborromeo.org/ccc/aposcons.htm

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