All will be saved


#202

Heresy means literally to pick or choose. Heretics fail in understanding Scripture because they take one or a few verses and hold them up as greater than all others as instructive to the faithful. To protect us from these heretics, our Magisterium interprets Scripture as a whole. We very much need our Magisterium.


#203

The Church defines heresy

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

“All will be saved” is heresy. It goes directly against what Jesus taught and the Church condemns it. It’s been condemned by the Church for 1500 years. To keep trying to sell it as true, given the corrections (all properly referenced) that have been given that say it is condemned thinking, qualifies as obstinate denial.


#204

Strawman after strawman. We pray also for the invincibly ignorant because God can save all men.


#205

All will not be saved carries the implication that 100% of people will not be saved.


#206

Re: Invincible ignorance,

. Game players who try and game the system, don’t qualify.

Also

. when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits. [CCC 1791]

I would just add


#207

If that is the implication, If 100% are damned, then why bother with anything?

It’s the same implication, “all will be saved” as in 100% go to heaven. Why bother with anything?


#208

The issue is what the Church does not teach. A poster claimed that the Church teaches as doctrine that “not all will be saved.” This claim is false. That this claim is false does not mean that the Church teaches that “all men will be saved.” We just do not know. The faithful are not required to give assent to either position.

Balthasar’s is a very careful argument, clearly distinguishing between universal salvation as a hope and universal salvation as a doctrine. He supports the former and rejects the latter. In sum: we do not know; only God knows; but we may hope. … The passages cited in support of universal redemption can and often have been interpreted in other ways, as have the passages cited in support of the damnation of some or many. The Church in her wisdom has not definitively settled these exegetical disputes. “Will All Be Saved?” Richard John Neuhaus.


#209

God bless you JoshuaIsLord and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.

KEY POINTS IN YOUR ABOVE POST

.2. St. Augustine (354-430)
“[No-one] can, of their own power, abstain from sin. Only God’s grace enables men to be virtuous.
But by God’s grace certain people, … are chosen to go to heaven; these are the elect.

They do not go to heaven because they are good; we are all totally depraved, except in so far as God’s grace, which is only bestowed on the elect, enables us to be otherwise.

No reason can be given why some are saved and the rest damned; this is due to God’s unmotivated choice.” End quote.
.
.
4.3. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)
Thus Aquinas’ Summa Theologiae contains a Question of ‘Predestination’ in which the Angelic Doctor lays it down that:

As men are ordained to eternal life through the providence of God.

It likewise is part of that providence to permit some to fall away [… and] so He also not only gave things their operative powers when they were first created, but is also always the cause of these in things.

Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause.” End quote.
.

Continue


#210

Continuation
.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine providence.

Sin is not ordained by the will of God, though it happens with His permission.

Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;).

One reason therefore why God permits sin is that man may arrive at once at a consciousness of righteousness and of his own inability to attain it, and so may put his trust in God (Anon. epis. ad Diog., vii-ix in “P.G.”, II, 1175 sq.; St. Gregory the Great, “Lib. moral.”, III, lvii in “P.L.”, LXXV, 627).

Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, “Enchir.”, xi in “P.L.”, LX, 236; "Serm).”

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”). End quote.
.
.

In the light of the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine providence we understand God’s reason of;
4.3. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274):
“Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause.” End quote.
.
.
WITH OTHER WORDS
Sin is not ordained by the will of God, though it happens with His permission and He provides the operating power to the sins/evil, for the reason; Evil He converts into good. – “Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause” (Thomas Aquinas).
.

Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;).
.

Eph.1:9-11; He made known to us the mystery of his will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ,

  1. to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfilment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth in Christ.

  2. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
    .

Continue


#211

Continuation
.

SUMMARY

God is working out everything according to His Eternal plan and will which is to save everyone.
.
Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;).
.
Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, “Enchir.”, xi in “P.L.”, LX, 236; "Serm).”
.
Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”).
.
.

God is the Supreme Leader of the Universe, nothing happen in the Universe without His permission.
.

I HAVE TO ADMIT, UNTIL NOW, I COULDN’T UNDERSTAND:
.

  1. For what reason God permitted the evil spirits come here to this planet earth when God has millions of other planets where God could accommodate them.

  2. For what reason God permitted Satan to enter to the Garden of Eden.
    .

  3. For what reason God permitted Satan to deceive Adam & Eve.
    .

  4. God has given Adam & Eve free will, for why didn’t God created Adam & Eve with corresponding brains which is equal with their free will.Free will without equal brain is not only useless but it is lethal.
    .

  5. Adam & Eve were very good, they were created according to God’s Eternal Design/Plan which includes their “fall” for the benefit of the human race. – Rom.8:28; etc.
    .

  6. Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father trains up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;).
    .

  7. Adam & Eve were children, this age is our growing up through suffering.
    .

  8. Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”).
    .

  9. The works of the evil spirits in planet earth, the “fall” of Adam & Eve, all evil which happening in the world today are NOT ACCIDENTS, they are all crucial parts of God’s Eternal Design/Plan for the benefit of the Whole Human Race. – Rom.8:28; etc.

.

All things which happening in the Universe, happening according to God’s Eternal Design/Plan and for the benefit of the Whole Human Race.
.
God’s Eternal Design/Plan and His Will is to save everyone and God will save everyone, but first we have to grow up and this age which is our growing up in suffering.
.

God bless you JoshuaIsLord and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin


#212

Where did he teach that?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1510.htm


#213

Matthew 7:13-14 , https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mt+7%3A13-14&version=RSVCE

Jesus could have corrected that but He didn’t. When asked, He validated that only a few are saved AND He doubled down on that warning.
Luke 13:23-28 , https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=lk+13%3A23-28&version=RSVCE

Why only a few are saved? Jesus said, looking forward in time,
because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold. Those who endure to the end, (the few) are saved. When the gospel is preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; then the end will come.
Mt 24:12-14, https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24:12-14&version=RSVCE

As Paul warned Bp Titus about those who refuse to be corrected in their heresy

Tit 3:10-11 As for a man who is factious, [ αἱρετικὸν ], after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned.

From the Greek NT
[ αἱρετικὸν ] = heresy in Greek = [http://bibleapps.com/greek/141.htm] and note Paul says one if they don’t change, after being corrected, they are already self condemned.


#214

God bless you Steve and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.
Thank you for your post.
.

WHO ARE THOSE WHO ARE ENDURE TO THE END?
.
ANSWER ACCORDING TO THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF THE TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE INFALLIBLE TEACHINGS OF THE TRENT:

EVERYONE endure/Persevere to the end who are receives God’s free and UNDESERVED grace The Gift of Final Perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.) at their Initial Justification. – DE FIDE Dogma + Infallible teachings of the Trent.
.

Also Infallible comes from the above teachings:

Those who don’t receive at their Initial Justification God’s free and UNDESERVED grace The Gift of Final Perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.) it is EQUAL as God POSITIVELY predestined and created them to hell from all eternity, because THERE IS NO SALVATION without God’s UNDESERVED grace The Gift of Final Perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.). – Infallible teachings of the Trent.
.
The above theological FACT follows from the DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church: Predestination of the elect, and from the Infallible Teachings of the Trent: God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance!!!
.

Continue


#215

Continuation
.

CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church, Simplified.

Explaining Justification
The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.

The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
.

Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

John 6:65; … no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.

John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him,
.
.
AS WE SEE ABOVE
.
God’s call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.
.
When God calls and draws an un-regenerated/carnal man into His service/salvation WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition and without regard to any future supernatural merits, His calling is backed up with an ABSOLUTE DECREE and in consequence of this DECREE, God gives them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment.DE FIDE Dogma. + Infallible teachings of the Trent. + God’s free gift of Justification CCCS (1990-1991). + The Grace of God’s Call CCCS (1996-1998).
.
.
As you see Steve; our salvation is 100 % God’s choice (IRRESISTIBLE for us and IRREVOCABLE choice of God) and 0 % our choice.
.

At Initial Justification God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance given to EVERY initially Justified which grace INFALLIBLE makes sure every Initially Justified dies in the state of grace.DE FIDE Dogma. + Infallible teachings of the Trent.
.

Continue


#216

Continuation
.

GOD FORCES NO ONE TO SAVED BECAUSE NO ONE HAS TO FORCE TO BE SAVED
.
Aquinas said, “God changes the will WITHOUT forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
.
Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
.
CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
.
In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.
.
Our cooperation with the grace of God is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.
.
.

TWO CRUCIAL QUESTIONS

  1. Do you believe Steve, anyone (even one person) can be saved without God’s IRRESISTIBLE and IRREVOCABLE grace of Predestination to ETERNAL LIFE and without God’s free and UNDESERVED IRRESISTIBLE and IRREVOCABLE grace The Gift of Final Perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.)???
    .
    My answer is: Without the above graces no one can be saved!

If you Steve don’t believe my answer, please prove, people can be saved without the above graces.
.
.

  1. Do you believe Steve, anyone (even one person) can end up in hell having God’s IRRESISTIBLE and IRREVOCABLE grace of Predestination to ETERNAL LIFE and having God’s free and UNDESERVED IRRESISTIBLE and IRREVOCABLE grace The Gift of Final Perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.) under his belt???
    .

My answer is: The receivers of the above graces can never end up in hell!

If you Steve don’t believe my answer, please prove: The receivers of the above graces can be end up in hell.
.

Continue


#217

Continuation
.

ONE ADDITIONAL QUESTION: Can anyone obtain or deserve the above graces of God?
.
My answer is: No one can obtain or deserve the above graces of God!

This time I don’t ask from you Steve, you agree with me or not, because I know you agree with me. – I guess, everyone agree with my above statement.
.

So, as you agree with me Steve, you must also agree with me:

If even one person end up in hell, that one person end up in hell because God created that HELPLESS one person to the pains of hell from all eternity by not giving him the above graces.
.
.
PROOF
No one can obtain or deserve the above God’s gift of graces and without the above God’s gift of graces, the destiny of the HELPLESS person is in the pains of hell!!!
.

Could you Steve contradict the above statement?
.
If you could not contradict it; Do you believe Steve, God’s Love and Justice Demands that God withhold the above graces from no one, which means; God saves everyone, which is in fact His Eternal Design/Plan and Will!!!
.
.

Eph.1:11;
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
.
As you see above Steve, God works out EVERYTHING in conformity with the purpose of his will, no surprises, no accidents.
.
God made His Design/Plan from all eternity and God works out EVERYTHING in conformity with the purpose of his will, no surprises, no accidents.
.
.

If God’s Design/Plan from all eternity that only a few saved, than only a few saved and apart from a few, God created the rest of the HELPLESS human race to the pains of hell by withholding from them the following salvation related graces:

a. The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991,

b. The Grace of God’s Call 1996-1998,

c. God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.).

.
Continue


#218

Continuation

.
OUR SALVATION IS NOT OUR CHOICE, IT IS STRICTLY GOD’S CHOICE!!!

The Grace of God’s Call (CCCS 1996-1998) … This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
.

Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

John 6:65; … no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.

John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him,
.
.

If really only a few saved, then only a few saved because that is God’s Design/Plan which is His Will from all eternity. – God’s Eternal Design/Plan will be done.
.
If everyone saved, then everyone saved because that is God’s Design/Plan which is His Will from all eternity. – God’s Eternal Design/Plan will be done.

.

So, what do you think Steve, what is God’s Eternal Design/Plan which is also His will, a few will be saved BY WITHHOLDING FROM THE REST OF THE HELPLESS HUMAN RACE HIS SALVATION RELATED GRACES or everyone will be saved BY PROVIDING EVERYONE HIS SALVATION RELATED GRACES?
.

Before you answer Steve, please keep in mind:

  1. Jonah 1:2; The Ninevites wickedness was so great came up before God.

  2. Jonah 3:4; God promised to the Ninevites throw all of them to hell.

  3. Jonah 4:11; God demonstrated His Eternal Design/Plan, His Universal Salvation in Nineveh.
    .

Continue


#219

Continuation
.

PLEASE STEVE ALSO KEEP IN MIND BEFORE YOU ANSWER
.
Eph.1:11;
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
.
.
Can anyone even think, God’s Eternal Design/Plan which is His Will, to save a few and He has created the rest of the HELPLESS human race to the pains of hell?
.
.

Because some graces can be rejected, some Christians believe, all kind of graces can be rejected, but NOTHING could be further from the truth.
.

No one can reject salvation related graces, for example of some salvation related graces:

a. The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991.

b. The Grace of God’s Call CCCS 1996-1998.

c. God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.).
.
.

THE WAY GOD SAVES EVERYONE ACCORDING TO HIS ETERNAL DESIGN/PLAN AND HIS WILL
.
The Grace of God’s Call (CCCS 1996-1998)
… This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
.

Aquinas said, “God changes the will WITHOUT forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
.
Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
.
CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
.
In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.
.
Our cooperation with the grace of God is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.
.

God bless you Steve and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin.


#220

Univeralism is not compatible with the Catholic Church. It is doctrine that demons exist and that they are eternally damned. The teachings of Origen that the devil would eventually be saved are not accepted by the Church.

We have no “canonization” for hell concerning any specific individual, because this would be contrary to the theological virtue of hope. But, to suppose that humanity is universally saved would mean God is showing partiality to humans over the angels, and God does not show partiality, as this is contrary to the cardinal virtue of justice, which God possesses in its fullness. There is no trace of prejudice in God.

The Holy Father is not a universalist and has spoken about hell on many occasions. As is the case in the neo-Bolshevik culture of the digital age, everybody and anybody’s words are construed to mean whatever we want them to mean.


#221

God bless every readers of the CAF.
.

THE FOLLOWING EARLY FATHERS OF THE CHURCH ARE SAID TO HAVE TAUGHT THAT ALL WILL FINALLY BE SAVED
.
Pantaenus; Clement of Alexandria; Origen; Athanasius; Didymus the Blind; Macarius of Egypt; Gregory Thaumaturgus; Ambrose; Ephraim; John Chrysostum; Gregory of Nyssa; Gregory of Nazianzus; Jerome of Bethlehem; Evagrius Ponticus; Titus of Bastra; Asterius of Amasea; Cyril; Methodius of Tyre; Pamphilius Eusibius; Hillary of Poitiers; Victorinus; Macrina the Younger; Dionysius the Areopagite; John Cassian; Maximus the Confessor; Proclus of Constantinople; Peter Chrysologus; Diodorus of Tarsus; Stephen bar Sudaili.
.
.

The doctrine of universal salvation has become very popular in the modern Roman Catholic Church and more and more Priests teaching Universal Salvation.
.

I believe Pope Francis also agree with universal salvation because he is the one who replaced Cardinal Gerhard Müller who was the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith until 02/07/2017, with Archbishop Luis F. Ladaria, Jesuit theologian who is openly teaching Universal Salvation since many years.
.

In my opinion:
If Pope Francis would not believe Universal Salvation, he would not replace Cardinal Gerhard Müller with Archbishop Luis F. Ladaria, Jesuit theologian who is openly teaching Universal Salvation since many years.
.

Continue


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.