Alleged Desecration of Quran


#1

Muslims are protesting and killing each other over an unproven allegation. Thanks Newsweek, the blood is on your hands.

The most atrocious part is that Muslims routinely disrespect our religion. The smash crosses, burn churches, throw away rosaries and Bibles in the trash (in Saudi Arabia). They have NO respect for our faith. Yet demand respect for theirs. Their blind hypocrisy is simply amazing. Read this about how they treat converts to Christianity in OUR OWN countries:

jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14689.htm


#2

I have this beef as well with Saudi Arabia (not with Islam, but KSA seems to make this a routine) where disrespect for other religions seem to be the norm there. My only question is, why can’t the U.S. blacklist KSA for good and tell them to shape up? That should put Saudi Arabia in its place.


#3

I certainly do not agree with killing folks but it would be nice to see some protests when certain groups persecute The Church and Christianity:mad: Apathy has done us no good so far:nope: I often wondered how long the abortion mills in our country would remain open if all the Catholics went to them and prayed the Rosary on the sidewalks in front of them:) I think the doors would close permanantly pretty quick:D


#4

Regardless of what Newsweek reports, and it was unverified, that is no excuse for the Muslim rioting.

All over Europe, Muslims may build mosques with no hindrance; in Rome, they wanted to build a mosque bigger than St. Peter’s basilica but had to settle for a merely large one.

Yet, in Saudi Arabia, one has to attend Mass in secret.

The West makes a virtue of tolerance. Where’s the reciprocity?


#5

[quote=JimG].

The West makes a virtue of tolerance. Where’s the reciprocity?
[/quote]

in the non-arab east.


#6

Punishment is DEATH for desecrating the Quran :eek:

Sounds like pure “Idol” worshiping to me :mad:

Is there any plans in the works on investigating Newsweek and their “sources”???


#7

And just how is it possible to desecrate the Koran?


#8

[quote=Pentecost2005]And just how is it possible to desecrate the Koran?
[/quote]

The original article stated that soldiers were flushing pages of the Koran down the toilet to convince prisoners to confess. It turns out that Newsweek didn’t ressearch their sources close enough and the incident probably didn’t happen. If it had happened the commanders of their units should be punished, of course. Even if it happened though, killing innocent people who had nothing to do with the activity is deplorable.


#9

[quote=cestusdei]Muslims are protesting and killing each other over an unproven allegation. Thanks Newsweek, the blood is on your hands.

The most atrocious part is that Muslims routinely disrespect our religion. The smash crosses, burn churches, throw away rosaries and Bibles in the trash (in Saudi Arabia). They have NO respect for our faith. Yet demand respect for theirs. Their blind hypocrisy is simply amazing. Read this about how they treat converts to Christianity in OUR OWN countries:

jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14689.htm
[/quote]

The problem Centusdei, is the lack of braveness of many catholics and non-catholic christians, some bishop spoke strongly about the converts to catholicism in Italy that have fear for the menaces for their conversion, how do we convert if we don´t give security to this people. I am very tired of these things, I think that many catholics and christians don´t have faith for defending christianism and for this, defending others.


#10

[quote=JimG]Yet, in Saudi Arabia, one has to attend Mass in secret.
[/quote]

They also had to do the same thing in Ireland for a long time because of English persecution. It was the English government at fault, not the religion of the English people as a whole.


#11

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]They also had to do the same thing in Ireland for a long time because of English persecution. It was the English government at fault, not the religion of the English people as a whole.
[/quote]

But do you think that the people of Saudi Arabia would welcome religious tolerance, and the ability of Christians to openly evangelize?

My understanding was that one of the reasons we put up with the Saudi government is that free elections would bring on much worse repression.


#12

And what have we, as christians and in general, have done according to what our faith teaches us? We kill babies by abortion and contraception. We allow homosexuals to preach in our pulpits and allow homosexual marriages. We invade countries and go to war and kill people. We cheat on our husbands and wives and divorce them. We make ourselves slaves to sexual pleasures and become perverts of our desires. And so on and so forth. These are not what our faith teaches us and yet these are realities in our christian societies. Now tell me if we are ought to be respected? I think we are, but if and only if we follow what our faith teaches us.
While you think muslims are blind hypocrites, I think we christians are wide-eyed-opened pathetics.

I grew up in a city south of the Philippines where muslims and christians (catholics) live generally in harmony and with respect to each other’s faith. Most of these muslims who live in a nearby village close to the shrine of the miraculous Nuestra Señora Virgen Del Pilar De Zaragosa revere our Blessed Mother so much with affection because they have known that Mama Mary has been protecting their village from the wrath of the sea and typhoons.

The bottomline is this: before making judgements on others, let us look closely at ourselves first in the mirror and see if we ought to be judged first.

Christ, our Lord and Savior, himself did not waste his time with the righteous but the sinners - the prostitutes, the tax collectors. Remember he asked whoever was sinless be the first to cast the stone upon the sinner?

PAX

[quote=cestusdei]Muslims are protesting and killing each other over an unproven allegation. Thanks Newsweek, the blood is on your hands.

The most atrocious part is that Muslims routinely disrespect our religion. The smash crosses, burn churches, throw away rosaries and Bibles in the trash (in Saudi Arabia). They have NO respect for our faith. Yet demand respect for theirs. Their blind hypocrisy is simply amazing. Read this about how they treat converts to Christianity in OUR OWN countries:

jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14689.htm
[/quote]


#13

OOPsss…should have been:

Christ, our Lord and Savior, himself mingled NOT with the righteous but with the sinners - the prostitutes, the tax collectors. Remember he asked whoever was sinless be the first to cast the stone upon the sinner?


#14

Lumen,
We live in societies that allow freedom of religion. They do not. We may abuse freedom by allowing abortion. But they don’t have freedom to begin with. Worse yet they don’t seem to want it. If you had to chose between the Taliban or the US I don’t think there is much choice. We Christians don’t go around killing people just because they burn a Bible. We don’t like it. But that isn’t why we are at war with them. Islam is a violent religion that encourages conflict. To them we are infidel and whatever they do to us is okay, but if we respond to defend ourselves then we are wrong. Don’t obfuscate. They are dead wrong. We may have our faults, but we ARE better then places like Saudi Arabia.


#15

Hi all!

Cestusdei, as usual, I find myself agreeing with you. You posted:

Christians don’t go around killing people just because they burn a Bible. We don’t like it.

Ditto for us.

Newsweek is/was certainly guilty of bad journalism. It violated the first thing that they teach you (it used to be the first thing you learned; it was the first thing I was taught back in Introduction to Journalism, which i took during my sophomore year in high school) in journalism school: Get it first, but first get it right.

I read the following about Pope Benedict XVI’s first meeting with the media back on April 23:

True to his previous role as chief guardian of Catholic orthodoxy and moral teaching, Benedict lectured the journalists on the need to possess “clear references of the ethical responsibilities” and to engage in a “sincere search for the truth and the safeguarding of the centrality and the dignity of the person.”

Link: washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11300-2005Apr23.html

I think that Newsweek would do well to take the Pontiff’s wise comments to heart.

But, of course, the foregoing cannot excuse the violence & mayhem that we witnessed in the Islamic world following Newsweek’s initial account.

I often wonder what is it that makes certain people and/or groups so prone to believing, and acting on the basis of, rumors and isolated reports. Back in August 1969, a deranged (he was found to be mentally unbalanced) Australian Christian tourist set fire to the Al-Aqsa Mosque here in Jerusalem (see palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_alaqsa_fire_1969.php &
& en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dennis_Rohan). The structure of the Mosque suffered far more damage than it otherwise would have due to the fact that local Muslims attempted to interefere with the Israeli firemen who were called out, and tried to prevent them from reaching the scene & from putting out the blaze. A rumor went out to the effect that the Israeli firetrucks were filled with gasoline, which the Israeli firemen intended to spray on the fire. :eek:

Be well!

ssv :wave:


#16

Hi all!

I this in today’s Los Angeles Times (latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-manji17may17,0,1520331.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions):

COMMENTARY

Do Riots Save Islam’s Honor?

By Irshad Manji

Irshad Manji is author of “The Trouble With Islam Today,” recently published in paperback by St. Martin’s Press.

May 17, 2005

So Newsweek has retracted its report about the defiling of Islam’s holy book, the Koran, by interrogators at Guantanamo Bay.

But it’s too late. Muslims everywhere are questioning America’s respect for all religions. Journalists are wondering what standards allowed the charge to be printed without proof. Foreign policy analysts are asking how the riots incited by the charge will affect the war on terrorism. Still, at least one more question needs to be asked: Even if the Koran was mistreated, are violent riots justified?

“What do you expect?” my critics will declare. “Abusing the Koran is like abusing basic human rights. If you’re a good Muslim, your identity and dignity are bound up in revering the Koran. It’s the literal word of God. Unsullied. Untouched. Unedited. Unlike the other holy books.”

Sorry. That argument just doesn’t wash. One can appreciate the Koran’s inherent worth, as I do, while recognizing that it contains ambiguities, inconsistencies, outright contradictions — and the possibility of human editing. This is not simply a reform-minded Muslim speaking. This is Islamic tradition talking.

For centuries, philosophers of Islam have been telling the story of the “Satanic Verses.” The Prophet Muhammad accepted them as authentic entries into the Koran. Later, he realized they deify heathen idols rather than God. So he belatedly rejected the verses, blaming them on a trick played by Satan. Which implies that the Prophet edited the Koran.

Let’s push this point further. Because pious Muslims emulate Muhammad’s life, those who compiled the Koran’s verses after his death might have followed his example of editing along the way. The compilers were, after all, only human — as human as Muhammad himself.

Moreover, they collected the Koran’s verses from sundry surfaces such as bones, stones and bark. How did the passages get there? According to Islamic lore, the Prophet, an illiterate trader, couldn’t personally record them. His companions served as scribes, often writing from memory. Given so much human involvement, isn’t it possible that errors infiltrated the “authoritative” Koran?

In asking this question, I’m neither impugning the allegorical wisdom of the Koran nor inviting another fatwa on my life. I’m saying that Muslims have to get comfortable asking such questions — and not merely whispering them — if we’re going to avoid a further desecration of human life. Riots in Afghanistan have already resulted in at least 14 deaths. Aid workers have been attacked; their offices burned. How does this benefit the cause of dignity — for anyone?

Many will insist that I’m undermining the dignity of Muslims by challenging a pillar of their identity. By urging my fellow Muslims to consider these questions, I’m showing faith in their capacity to be thoughtful and humane. I’m appealing to their heads rather than only their hearts. Ultimately, I’m fighting not Islam but the routinely low expectations of those who practice it.

Contrast that with the strategy of Imran Khan, the Pakistani cricketer-turned-politician who rallied his countrymen to express rage based on one paragraph in Newsweek. A fierce rival of Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf, Khan objects to cooperating with the U.S. on security matters. He knew his comments about Newsweek would feed the most reflexive of Muslim impulses: to treat the Koran with uncritical veneration.

Such lazy tactics remind me of those used to drive the Miss World Beauty Pageant out of Nigeria in 2002. That fiasco led to more than 50 deaths. It wasn’t the affront of immodestly clad women that sparked the uproar. Rioting began only after a columnist suggested that the Prophet would have gotten a kick out of the pageant and taken its winner as his wife. An imprudent remark, but should it have caused banditry and murder?

(cont.)


#17

(cont.)

When people believe that certain aspects of religion are off-limits to questions, it doesn’t take much to incite violence — or to withhold forgiveness. In the Nigerian case, even though the offending newspaper apologized three times, Muslim protesters set its offices ablaze.

As I write, Muslims worldwide are scheduling demonstrations for the end of this month against those who insult Islam. They’ll peacefully protest not just the possibility of the Koran’s desecration at Guantanamo but the proven torture at Abu Ghraib as well as civil rights violations suffered by ordinary Muslims in the United States. They have every right to condemn these injuries.

Will they also speak out against the bloody, fiery riots that, in the name of honoring Islam, are killing an increasing number of Muslims and non-Muslims?

It’s a question worth asking.

My wife & I heard Irshad Manji (muslim-refusenik.com/) speak a few months back here in Jerusalem (that she would come to Israel & speak at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem says alot.) She’s quite something.

Be well!

ssv :wave:


#18

We got this big bru-ha-ha about an ALLEGED (and not proven) desecration of the Qu’ran, but we have a DAILY desecration of the Bible (by those who hate religion here in the USA) and no reporter blinks an eye.


#19

what newsweek did is high treason


#20

[quote=Pentecost2005]And just how is it possible to desecrate the Koran?
[/quote]

It’s actually not possible to desecrate the Koran. To desecrate something means to treat disrespectfully something which is holy or sacred. The Koran is not sacred. Thus it cannot be desecrated. It can however be perceived to be desecrated in the eyes of Muslims.


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