Allen West hears cheers, jeers at town hall

palmbeachpost.com/news/state/allen-west-hears-cheers-jeers-at-town-hall-2295766.html?cxtype=rss_news

U.S. Rep. Allen West told about 90 largely supportive Palm City voters Tuesday that locally prioritized federal projects — such as the St. Lucie Inlet dredging — aren’t going to matter if Washington officials don’t address a mounting deficit.

Later Tuesday evening, a Jensen Beach crowd of 100 with more than 15 protesters greeted the congressman with mixed support, cheers and jeers.

The conservative tea party icon also got in shots at Democrats and President Obama, who spoke Tuesday at Florida Atlantic University. West said Obama was “scared” to have a discussion with him. He later said “he’s heard” up to 80 U.S. House Democrats are Communist Party members, but wouldn’t name names.

I see Joe McCarthy tactics are returning again. Communist Party members? Really?

You might question his tactics, but McCarthy was right. See Alger Hiss, and the Venona tapes.

Funny that most aren’t aware that history vindicated his charges, not that it would justify West’s remarks.

About the thousands of Communists in our government?
:shrug:

I don’t remember the “thousands” claim.

There is some dispute about the number of Communists McCarthy claimed to have known about. Though advance copies of this speech distributed to the press record the number as 205, McCarthy quickly revised this claim. Both in a letter he wrote to President Truman the next day and in an “official” transcript of the speech that McCarthy submitted to the Congressional Record ten days later he uses the number 57. Although McCarthy displayed this list of names both in Wheeling and then later on the Senate floor, he never made the list public.

Copy of that speech:

historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6456/

A “list” and resulting Venona and non-Venona evidence of espionage.

johnearlhaynes.org/page62.html

Senator McCarthy in a speech before the Senate on June 14, 1951, described, “a conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy of infamy so black that, when it is finally exposed, its principals shall be forever deserving of the maledictions of all honest men.”

Okay. Perhaps a “conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man” didn’t quite reach a thousand.

American Socialists Party Release Names of 70 Congressional Democrats in Their Ranks: Arizona’s Pastor and Grijalva are listed!

Q: How many members of the U.S. Congress are also members of the DSA?
A: Seventy
Q: How many of the DSA members sit on the Judiciary Committee?
A: Eleven: John Conyers [Chairman of the Judiciary Committee], Tammy Baldwin, Jerrold Nadler, Luis Gutierrez, Melvin Watt, Maxine Waters, Hank Johnson, Steve Cohen, Barbara Lee, Robert Wexler, Linda Sanchez [there are 23 Democrats on the Judiciary Committee of which eleven, almost half, are now members of the DSA].
Q: Who are these members of 111th Congress?
A: See the listing below
Co-Chairs
Hon. Raúl M. Grijalva (AZ-07)
Hon. Lynn Woolsey (CA-06)
Vice Chairs
Hon. Diane Watson (CA-33)
Hon. Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX-18)
Hon. Mazie Hirono (HI-02)
Hon. Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)
Senate Members
Hon. Bernie Sanders (VT)
House Members
Hon. Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)
Hon. Tammy Baldwin (WI-02)
Hon. Xavier Becerra (CA-31)
Hon. Madeleine Bordallo (GU-AL)
Hon. Robert Brady (PA-01)
Hon. Corrine Brown (FL-03)
Hon. Michael Capuano (MA-08)
Hon. André Carson (IN-07)
Hon. Donna Christensen (VI-AL)
Hon. Yvette Clarke (NY-11)
Hon. William “Lacy” Clay (MO-01)
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver (MO-05)
Hon. Steve Cohen (TN-09)
Hon. John Conyers (MI-14)
Hon. Elijah Cummings (MD-07)
Hon. Danny Davis (IL-07)
Hon. Peter DeFazio (OR-04)
Hon. Rosa DeLauro (CT-03)
Rep. Donna F. Edwards (MD-04)
Hon. Keith Ellison (MN-05)
Hon. Sam Farr (CA-17)
Hon. Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
Hon. Bob Filner (CA-51)
Hon. Barney Frank (MA-04)
Hon. Marcia L. Fudge (OH-11)
Hon. Alan Grayson (FL-08)
Hon. Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
Hon. John Hall (NY-19)
Hon. Phil Hare (IL-17)
Hon. Maurice Hinchey (NY-22)
Hon. Michael Honda (CA-15)
Hon. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-02)
Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-30)
Hon. Hank Johnson (GA-04)
Hon. Marcy Kaptur (OH-09)
Hon. Carolyn Kilpatrick (MI-13)
Hon. Barbara Lee (CA-09)
Hon. John Lewis (GA-05)
Hon. David Loebsack (IA-02)
Hon. Ben R. Lujan (NM-3)
Hon. Carolyn Maloney (NY-14)
Hon. Ed Markey (MA-07)
Hon. Jim McDermott (WA-07)
Hon. James McGovern (MA-03)
Hon. George Miller (CA-07)
Hon. Gwen Moore (WI-04)
Hon. Jerrold Nadler (NY-08)
Hon. Eleanor Holmes-Norton (DC-AL)
Hon. John Olver (MA-01)
Hon. Ed Pastor (AZ-04)
Hon. Donald Payne (NJ-10)
Hon. Chellie Pingree (ME-01)
Hon. Charles Rangel (NY-15)
Hon. Laura Richardson (CA-37)
Hon. Lucille Roybal-Allard (CA-34)
Hon. Bobby Rush (IL-01)
Hon. Linda Sánchez (CA-47)
Hon. Jan Schakowsky (IL-09)
Hon. José Serrano (NY-16)
Hon. Louise Slaughter (NY-28)
Hon. Pete Stark (CA-13)
Hon. Bennie Thompson (MS-02)
Hon. John Tierney (MA-06)
Hon. Nydia Velazquez (NY-12)
Hon. Maxine Waters (CA-35)
Hon. Mel Watt (NC-12)
Hon. Henry Waxman (CA-30)
Hon. Peter Welch (VT-AL)
Hon. Robert Wexler (FL-19)

History didn’t validate McCarthy’s charges, though.

There were communists in the United States government, and there were effective people who were running them down and running them out of the government. Joe McCarthy was not one of them.

McCarthy had almost nothing to do with Alger Hiss (his career was launched by the Wheeling speech in February of 1950; Whittaker Chambers took the stand against Hiss in 1948 and Hiss was found guilty in January of 1950). His most notable accusations, that there were communists in the Army, that Dean Acheson was a communist, and that George Marshall was a communist, all fell pretty flat.

You can say “There are criminals in Gettysburg” and that statement would be true. However, that doesn’t make you right if you’re accusing random people of being criminals.

Who said anything about criminals?:shrug:

All right. Now let’s get some evidence as to the truth of this claim. First of all, there is no party by the name of American Socialists Party or Socialist Party of America. There is a Socialist Party USA, but they don’t have a single member in Congress, and the logo on that website is not their logo.

So the Arizona Lawaman and Phoeniz Police Gazette, which doesn’t appear to be a very reputable source anyway, seems to have made some untrue claims.

More on how inaccurate that site is:

(NOTE: Leon Trotsky was also a major player in implementing the artificially induced famine in Ukraine in 1932 & 1933 ordered by Lenin and Stalin, during which seven million Ukrainians were starved to death.)

Lenin was ten years dead in 1932, and Trotsky was in exile. He wasn’t a major player in Soviet government and hadn’t been since 1927.

So I don’t trust the Arizona Vigilante Gazeteer or whatever its called.

Analogy.

McCarthy saying there are communists in government-True statement.

Me saying there are criminals in Gettysburg-True statement.

That doesn’t justify me in accusing Joe Schmoe of being a criminal.

What does you calling Joe Schmoe a criminal have to do with West saying some members of congress are communist party members?

I see. So the first person to publicly push for more investigations into Communist and spy activities in the US goverment had no bearing on HUAC or other investigations??

People McCarthy had right:

Chipchin, Nelson: McCarthy list # 23; No on Lee List: Benign identification in Venona

Graze, Gerald: McCarthy list # 29; Lee list # 25; Not identified in Venona;[5] Identified as a Soviet Espionage Source in the Gorsky Memo[6]

Graze, Stanley: McCarthy list # 8; Lee list # 8; Not identified in Venona; Identified as a Soviet Espionage Source in the Gorsky Memo[7]

Miller, Robert T.: McCarthy list # 16; Lee list # 12; Not identified in Venona;[10] First Identified as a Soviet Espionage Source by Elizabeth Bentley in her 1945 FBI statement.[11]

Neumann, Franz Leopold: McCarthy list # 59; Lee list # 69; Not identified in Venona[12] Identified as a Soviet Espionage Source in Weinstein and Vassiliev’s The Haunted Wood.[13]

Remington, William: McCarthy list # 19; Not on Lee List; Not identified in Venona. First Identified as a Soviet Source by Elizabeth Bentley in her 1945 FBI statement.[14]

Rudlin, Walter Arthur: Lee list # 56; Ambiguously identified in Venona[16]

Zablodgwskei [Zablodowsky?], David: Not identified in Venona. Admitted to being a covert mail drop for Whittaker Chambers in the 1930s.[18]

Currie, Lauchlin: Identified in Venona as a Soviet Espionage Source;[19] First Identified as a Soviet Source by Elizabeth Bentley in her 1945 FBI statement.[20]

Glasser, Harold: Identified in Venona as a Soviet Espionage Source;[21] First Identified as a Soviet Source by Elizabeth Bentley in her 1945 FBI statement.[22]

Service, John Stewart: Not identified in Venona. Identified by FBI bugging in 1945 as having deliberately leaked DOS information to the pro-Communist journal Amerasia.[24]

Karr, David: Identified in Venona as assisting Soviet Espionage[30]

johnearlhaynes.org/page62.html

Of course, McCarthy was not vindicated because the average person who can identify “Joe McCarthy” as “anti-Communist” can’t tell you what the Venona Transcripts were.

We can go to their very own website:

								[dsausa.org/about/org.gif]("http://www.dsausa.org/about/org.map")
							 								 									The  Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is the largest socialist  organization in the United States, and the principal U.S. affiliate of  the Socialist International. DSA's members are building progressive  movements for social change while establishing an openly socialist  presence in American communities and politics.
									
									At the root of our socialism is a profound commitment to  democracy, as means and end. We are activists committed not only to  extending political democracy but to demanding democratic empowerment in  the economy, in gender relations, and in culture. Democracy is not  simply one of our political values but our means of restructuring  society. Our vision is of a society in which people have a real voice in  the choices and relationships that affect the entirety of our lives. **We call this vision democratic socialism — a vision of a more free, democratic and humane society.**
									
									In this web site you can find out about DSA, its politics,  structure and program. DSA's political perspective is called **[Where We Stand]("http://www.dsausa.org/about/where.html")**. It says, in part, 									 										*We  are socialists because we reject an international economic order  sustained by private profit, alienated labor, race and gender  discrimination, environmental destruction, and brutality and violence in  defense of the status quo.
											
											We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane  international social order based both on democratic planning and market  mechanisms to achieve equitable distribution of resources, meaningful  work, a healthy environment, sustainable growth, gender and racial  equality, and non-oppressive relationships.*

But that still isn’t the name of the organization that was mentioned in the initial post AND they do not have a membership list to confirm that the members of Congress are in fact members of their organization. So, until there is some official documentation this is yet another instance of “bearing false witness” simply because you disagree with someone’s politics. It’s funny how some of the ten commandments are freely ignored as long as it favors those attacking Democrats!

Was it, as the Senator claimed, ““a conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man”? Seems as though the names on your list don’t quite amount to a conspiracy of such depth. :shrug:

I don’t know but infiltration of the government of a worlds superpower in a cold war with nuclear weapons as an overhanging threat seems pretty immense to me.:wink:

It has to do with Joe McCarthy, who was brought up by the poster to whom I was responding.

HUAC became a standing committee in 1945, had brought in Alger Hiss in 1948, and was doing its work totally independent of Joe McCarthy. Richard Nixon made his name as a communist hunter, and while he also went to excess, he was much more responsible and effective. McCarthy made a circus out of everything.

People McCarthy had right:

Chipchin, Nelson: McCarthy list # 23; No on Lee List: Benign identification in Venona

Graze, Gerald: McCarthy list # 29; Lee list # 25; Not identified in Venona;[5] Identified as a Soviet Espionage Source in the Gorsky Memo[6]

Graze, Stanley: McCarthy list # 8; Lee list # 8; Not identified in Venona; Identified as a Soviet Espionage Source in the Gorsky Memo[7]

Miller, Robert T.: McCarthy list # 16; Lee list # 12; Not identified in Venona;[10] First Identified as a Soviet Espionage Source by Elizabeth Bentley in her 1945 FBI statement.[11]

Neumann, Franz Leopold: McCarthy list # 59; Lee list # 69; Not identified in Venona[12] Identified as a Soviet Espionage Source in Weinstein and Vassiliev’s The Haunted Wood.[13]

Remington, William: McCarthy list # 19; Not on Lee List; Not identified in Venona. First Identified as a Soviet Source by Elizabeth Bentley in her 1945 FBI statement.[14]

Rudlin, Walter Arthur: Lee list # 56; Ambiguously identified in Venona[16]

Zablodgwskei [Zablodowsky?], David: Not identified in Venona. Admitted to being a covert mail drop for Whittaker Chambers in the 1930s.[18]

Currie, Lauchlin: Identified in Venona as a Soviet Espionage Source;[19] First Identified as a Soviet Source by Elizabeth Bentley in her 1945 FBI statement.[20]

Glasser, Harold: Identified in Venona as a Soviet Espionage Source;[21] First Identified as a Soviet Source by Elizabeth Bentley in her 1945 FBI statement.[22]

Service, John Stewart: Not identified in Venona. Identified by FBI bugging in 1945 as having deliberately leaked DOS information to the pro-Communist journal Amerasia.[24]

Karr, David: Identified in Venona as assisting Soviet Espionage[30]

johnearlhaynes.org/page62.html

Of course, McCarthy was not vindicated because the average person who can identify “Joe McCarthy” as “anti-Communist” can’t tell you what the Venona Transcripts were.

And what about the people he had wrong? What about his wild and ridiculous accusations against George Marshall and Dean Acheson?

McCarthy was accusing everyone in sight, so he was naturally going to get some people right on sheer chance. Hence my analogy.

Actually, you were the one who brought up McCarthy:

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