ALTAR AREA


#1

Does your church’s altar area resemble a TV studio with colored stage lights, spotlights, dangling microphones etc. ?


#2

Tom,

No, although that might be the case if one were televising the Mass from that particular church. Here’s the altar area from my parish (the church has been repainted since this picture was taken, so the colors are different today).

http://www.stjosephplacentia.org/images/altar.jpg

Deacon Ed


#3

[quote=Deacon Ed]Tom,

No, although that might be the case if one were televising the Mass from that particular church. Here’s the altar area from my parish (the church has been repainted since this picture was taken, so the colors are different today).

http://www.stjosephplacentia.org/images/altar.jpg

Deacon Ed
[/quote]

At first glace I didn’t like it…but the more I look at it, it puts the focal point just wher it should be…I really like it! What color change was made? God Bless, Annunciata:)

Oh, and to respond to Tom, we don’t experience this in our parish, but I have seen it in another and quite frankly, I found it very distracting especially with the priest and his “remote lighting switch”…for effect? Not! It’s like we’re in a theater being entertained… :rolleyes: God Bless, Annunciata


#4

Annunciata,

Yes, the banners were designed to draw the eye to both the tabernacle and the crucifix.

Colors now are earth-tone, with beige behind the altar. The carpet has also been changed to a gray with brown and beige flecks – looks pretty good, although I much prefer the blue as that is my favorite color.

Deacon Ed


#5

Here are some wonderful Sanctuaries.

Where are the pictures?


#6

[quote=Deacon Ed]Tom,

No, although that might be the case if one were televising the Mass from that particular church. Here’s the altar area from my parish (the church has been repainted since this picture was taken, so the colors are different today).

http://www.stjosephplacentia.org/images/altar.jpg

Deacon Ed
[/quote]

Looks Catholic :slight_smile:


#7

Generally the alter area is reverent but could be better. The main crucifix is off the the side and during teen mass the pop band is very close to the alter.

I would like to see the entire area focusing on the alter and the crucifix exclusive of other distractions.

Chuck


#8

This is how the altar area should look like in all Roman Rite churches. http://www.dici.org/galerie/Nancy_web/Hrez/05homelie.jpg http://www.sosj.org/hmass1.jpegOr Like this
http://www.latinmass.org/IMAGES/uvad2.jpg


#9

This, of course, is just your opinion, right?

It definitely is how the altar would probably appear for a Tridentine Mass using the 1962 Missal.

It is not required that it look like this for celebration of the Novus Ordo Mass and we must not mislead lurkers and seekers to think that.

These are the requirements

nccbuscc.org/liturgy/current/chapter5.htm#sect2


#10

The Traditional Altar is beautiful. The New Mass altar facing the people looks sad and is not treated like an altar. Do you want this example one #1
http://www.latinmass.org/IMAGES/uvad2.jpg or this or like example two below thishttp://www.sdb.pl/ministranci/galeria/04032004/2.jpg
Hmmmm… Which one evokes more reverence one or two?


#11

The lower one of course. A sketch artist drawing light rays does not make it more holy.

By the way, in the order of mass, the priest faces the congregation, unless the Tridentine indult mass is being used.


#12

Just for the record, the Priest may say the NOM Ad Orientum if he chooses - few do.


#13

Catholic Eagle - you are of course, aware, that one condition of allowing the Indult Mass is that there is no dispute over the validity of the NOM.

Those conditions include that one affirm the validity of Vatican II and the postconciliar liturgy.

"The following conditions were stipulated: a)that those requesting the permission (for Indult Mass) do not "call into question the legitimacy and doctrinal exactitude of the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970

Almost no one approves of the abuses which can and do occur but posting the pictures of the two altars does not point out any liturgical abuse and I believe might be considered to calling into question the legitmacy and doctrinal exactitude of the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970.


#14

For Example Two I was really holding my breath, thinking you were going to blow out all the stops with some truly awful liturgical abuse!:smiley: Aside from the too-modern-for-my-taste bas relief in the altar, this is not too bad at all. In fact, I prefer a solid sarcophogus-style altar to a table-style, it reminds me of the catacombs. Tabernacle appears to be in the center, processional crucifix and candlesticks appear to be good quality, vestments match and appear to have nice silk orphreys–I’m pretty pleased with Example Two actually. Are you objecting to concelebration?–the main difference seems to be not the furnishing of the sanctuaries but rather that in Example One we have a priest offering Mass ad orientem and in Example Two we have a group of concelebrating priests with servers.


#15

[quote=deogratias]Just for the record, the Priest may say the NOM Ad Orientum if he chooses - few do.
[/quote]

Then I stand corrected. I have never heard that this was done or seen it. Has any one else seen the preist facing the people during a vernacular mass?


#16

THE MICROPHONE! I didn’t see the microphone, it is pretty large. This must have been a TV taping, it looks like there is a camcorder or something above it.


#17

[quote=tom.wineman]Does your church’s altar area resemble a TV studio with colored stage lights, spotlights, dangling microphones etc. ?
[/quote]

No, mine is a solid stone/marble? thing. The area is lovely, especially since the sanctuary lamp is close, and it is the most beautiful one I have ever seen in an ordinary church (don’t count Notre Dame, etc.). We just had it cleaned professionally to the tune of thousands. I think it was worth it. The whole church sweeps your eye foreward and up.


#18

Not an uncommon misconception.

EWTN used to celebrate the Mass Ad Orientum but the Bishop in that Diocese decided all the Masses in that Diocese would be Ad Populum.

**Fr. Fessio wrote: **

Mass Ad Orientem (Facing East) Or Ad Apsidem (Facing The Apse)

This practice seems to cause the most bewilderment. Much needs to be said about it. I can only outline some salient points here.

  1. Mass facing East was the norm from ancient times and even during and after Vatican Council II. There has never been authoritative liturgical legislation requiring any change. The Roman Missal (official liturgical book from which Mass is celebrated) not only permits it, the rubrics actually presuppose it, (e.g., the priest is told to “turn toward the people” at the Orate Fratres ("Pray, brethren . . .)

  2. It has been the practice in the entire Church, East and West from time immemorial. Contrary to a prevailing misconception (even among liturgists) there is no evidence for celebration of Mass coram populo (facing the people) in the first nineteen centuries of the Church’s history, with rare exceptions. (Cf. The Spirit of the Liturgy, by Cardinal Ratzinger, pp. 74-84.) The practice of reducing an altar to a table for a service facing the people began in the 16th century — with Martin Luther. “Despite all the variations in practice that have taken place far into the second millennium, one thing has remained clear for the whole of Christendom: praying toward the east is a tradition that goes back to the beginning. Moreover, it is a fundamental expression of the Christian synthesis of cosmos and history [see below], of being rooted in the once-for-all events of salvation history while going out to meet the Lord who is to come again” (Ratzinger, p. 75).

Continued in next post


#19

Ad Orientum continued

  1. Vatican Council II said nothing about the direction of the celebrant during Mass. It presupposed Mass ad orientem.

  2. Moving the altar closer to the nave, separating it from the reredos, and proclaiming the readings from the ambo — though none of these were mandated or even mentioned by Vatican II — are a welcome return to more ancient tradition and, I believe, in harmony with the intent of Sacrosanctum Concilium. However, Mass coram populo, while it is certainly permitted (I have celebrated Mass this way more than 10,000 times) and has become almost universal, in fact deprives the Mass of its traditional cosmic and eschatological symbolism.

Churches have traditionally been constructed facing the rising sun. The sun is, of course, a cosmic symbol of the light, energy, and grace that come to us through the Son from the Father. The sun is the cosmic sign of the Risen Christ, Light of the World. Facing east we are turned in expectation toward the Lord who is to come (eschatology) and we show that we are part of an act that goes beyond the church and community where we are celebrating, to the whole world (cosmos). In churches not facing geographical east, the Cross and Tabernacle become “liturgical east”. (Incidentally, the rubrics require that the celebrant of Mass face the crucifix during the eucharistic prayer. This has led, when not to simple disregard of liturgical law, to the anomaly of two crucifixes in the sanctuary — one facing the people and another small one on the altar facing the priest — or even the grotesquerie of a Cross with a Corpus on both sides!)

  1. The drama of salvation history is powerfully symbolized in the renewed liturgy when it is celebrated ad orientem. The priest faces the people as he calls them to prayer. Then he turns to lead them in the common plea for mercy (Kyrie eleison). He prays on behalf of the people as he continues to face the Lord. He turns toward the people to proclaim the Word and instruct them. After receiving their gifts, he turns again to the Lord to offer the gifts to God, first as bread and wine, then after the consecration as the Body and Blood of Christ. He then turns to the people to distribute the Risen Christ in forms of bread and wine at the eucharistic banquet.

While there is some positive symbolism to be recognized in Mass coram populo, there is also a very negative symbolism. “The turning of the priest toward the people has turned the community into a self-enclosed circle. In its outward form, it no longer opens out on what lies ahead and above, but is closed in on itself” (Ratzinger, p. 80). 6. Pope John Paul II regularly celebrates Mass ad orientem in his private chapel.


#20

Deogratias:
I believe that the Novus Ordo Mass is fully valid, when done accordingly. I also think that some things in the New Mass are troubling. Like the taking out of the direct mention to Mary,Mother of God and other major saints in the Confiteor and the optinality of the Confiteor. To have misgivings about the New Mass is not to question the validity of the New Mass. How can one question the validity of the Second Vatican council? How does on measure the validity of a ecumenical council,deogratias?


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