Am I the only person who didn't know this growing up?

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=37374&highlight=kissing

Yeah. I pretty much agree. French kissing is foreplay and is reserved for married couples. :slight_smile:

Yeah, I’m the only person that didn’t know that??

I never knew that (nor was I ever taught that) and I’m 53!

I’m not far behind you and I never heard anyone say that french kissing was a mortal sin. :eek:

shrug I don’t think it should be reserved for marriage. I think to make a blanket statement like that is going wayyyy overboard… unfair, kinda ridiculous really. Seriously, how much more are they going to butt in on other people’s relationships? Absurd.

It’s up to the couple to determine whether it’s a help or a hindrance for them.

Well. If you take the logical progression of what French kissing’s purpose is it isn’t hard to make the argument that it is mortal sin outside of marriage. (Obviously if the pre-requisite for mortal sin is met.)

Everyone here knows what “French Kissing” is right? It’s not kid stuff.

While I tend to agree with you, it’s simply my opinion. Just as Ms. Arnold’s response was nothing more than her personal opinion. Michelle Arnold speaks with no authority.

Ms. Arnold is a fairly respected apologist.

Heavy petting and French kissing are pre-sexual acts that were never tolerated before marriage by any Christian culture in the past. It is obvious to anyone who has ever participated in these acts that they cause intense sexual arousal, the only purpose of which is to prepare the body for sex, which is sinful outside of marriage.

I’m not talking about Ms. Arnold, but rather, the teacher.

No doubt, but I’m sure if you asked her, she would be happy to tell you that pre-martial french kissing is not inherently sinful.

If she did say that, she would be wrong. But I don’t think she would say that.

#1: I’d like to see your source. I don’t know if you have enough historical evidence to come to that conclusion.

#2: Nevertheless, even if it were true, the practice of nearly every earlier Christian culture is interesting but it doesn’t necessarily get us anywhere. How many of those Christian cultures allowed slavery? Torture? How many were racist? Sexist? How many of them believed royalty held blood that made them “superior” to all the peons? Our cultural traditions are interesting, they aren’t God’s law.

A help or a hindrance to what?

I would imagine that the Apologist for a Catholic forum (Ask an apologist - see link above) would know what they’re talking about. I just never heard of it before.

To the purpose of their relationship.

Which is, presumably, to help get each other to heaven. Though, there are many other sub-purposes of a relationship, surely.

Well, they do. But again, if you ask Ms. Arnold or any of the other apologists here, I’m sure they will inform you that there is nothing inherently sinful about french kissing.

Casey, the problem is that we live in a culture where we take sexual activity for granted. When I was a teenager I would “make out” with my gfs. We would french kiss (by this I mean I would thrust my tongue in and out of her mouth) and I would feel her body (on top of the shirt and underneath) etc. Now, if you’d asked me at the time I would have said that I was not sinning because I didn’t actually have sex with her. But…as a man thinketh in his heart so he is! and if a man even looks at a woman with lust he has already committed adultery in his heart.

Now I want you to all be open minded for a moment. I want you to think of the closest woman to you in your life. I want you to imagine some man french kissing her. Some of you may be picturing a wife, a sister, a gf, a mother, etc. Now, can you honestly tell me that you have absolutely no reaction to this? After all, they’re not having actual sex. So it should be no big deal right?!?!

Did you read the original link? I thought Ms. Arnold was pretty clear that if the pre-requisite for mortal sin was met, french kissing outside of marriage was sinful.

You’re combining multiple things here and that’s going to muddy the waters.

Let’s take out the groping. Based on the way you describe this situation, I would imagine the kissing you were doing was sinful.

Now I want you to all be open minded for a moment. I want you to think of the closest woman to you in your life. I want you to imagine some man french kissing her. Some of you may be picturing a wife, a sister, a gf, a mother, etc. Now, can you honestly tell me that you have absolutely no reaction to this? After all, they’re not having actual sex. So it should be no big deal right?!?!

There’s lots of things that gross me out, but that’s obviously not the criterion for sin. Otherwise, crocs (the things you wear on your feet), various bodily fluids (not naming any of them but you know) and turnips would all be sinful. More to the point, that would make my parents having sex sinful even though that would be almost the opposite of sin (it’s a debt they have to each other).

So…

No, you’re evading the point. I’m not talking about what grosses you out, but what makes you defensive for the human dignity of your loved one.

Well, I can’t see that offering a strong sexual temptation to an unmarried person would help them get to heaven.

When did you ask that question?

All I saw was this:

Now, can you honestly tell me that you have absolutely no reaction to this? After all, they’re not having actual sex. So it should be no big deal right?!?!

From which I had to infer your intent, as there’s certainly nothing mentioned about dignity.

So I suppose your question is does the thought of my sister kissing make me “defensive” for her “human dignity”? No, it doesn’t. Is it a big deal? Perhaps, it would depend. I doubt it though.

But regardless, you are inventing your own criterion for sin. Something is not sinful merely because I feel “defensive” of that person’s “dignity.”

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