I had a question . Me and my parents got in a fight over my girlfriend and i living with eachother and i understood that it is disrespectful so i will live in my own apartment but I cant spend a night without her she is the love of my life .Me and her made a vow that we would not have sex til we are married and we also vowed not to get married til we are financially stable We are 20 (me) and she is 23 she also will graduate on the 21st from college and get a degree in electric engeniering . She is now going to get her own place but we will probably bespending the night with eachother evverynight but still have seperate places.my parents understand she has been doing this and not totally against her being with me all the time . Now is it so bad that we do this even though it feels right and we know and we help eachother get to our #1 goal of graduating. so is it wrong to do this when it feels right?
Please step out of your romance novel and into reality. You are not married. Period. Until you are, you do not live together or sleep together.
Yes, it is wrong. It is a near occasion of sin and the sin of scandal.
It doesn’t matter what “feels” right. It matters what** IS **right. And, it is not right to spend the night with your girlfriend, disrespecting God’s law in the process.
Why not get married?
I know it is very radical to think this way, but, way back in the stone age, people got married during college, lived in little “married dorms” or small apartments, ate beans, did not have luxuries and loved and built a life together.
This whole “I’d rather commit mortal sin than give up my idea of a 20K wedding, a 2500 sq foot starter home, graduate degrees, high powered carreers.” :shrug:
Get enrolled in marriage prep and get married if you cannot live without each other. As the Bible says, it is better to marry than to burn.
As two college-educated people, you must surely realize that certain objective truths exist. Here’s one: Cohabitation is sinful.
It may feel “right” and “good” to spend the night together, but objectively speaking it’s just wrong. There are several reasons for this. *None *of us are immune to temptation: you and your girlfriend certainly aren’t, and those people who view your situation from the outside certainly aren’t. Living together before marriage can be the source of scandal. As Christians we must work to keep our brothers and sisters from sinning or assuming that we are sinning.
It’s that simple. Respect your family, respect your girlfriend, respect yourself, and respect your God.
Ady, yes, this is wrong. Your parents are right.
It is also wrong for you to spend the night. No one will believe you are not having sex. It matters not what you tell them, they will not believe. If you then receive Holy communion, you will bring scandal. So spending the night with your girlfriend is always wrong. These are very grave sins. Period.
I just posted this link on another thread but it is worth repeating.
Take a look at Christopher West’s book The Good News About Sex and Marriage. Get it here. In addition take a look at these book with presents a gentle introduction the the whole topic of the Church’s teaching on sexuality. Theology of the Body for Beginners. Get it here.
What would you tell me if I posed the same question to you? Or what if your little sister did?
Look… listen to this program. It’s alot faster than reading a book. And it changed my life. Press this link: pureloveclub.com/seminars/index.php?id=5
And choose the Public High Scool Talk.
Afterwards you are gonna want to do the right thing.
And believe me… one day you and your girl friend will be respecting each other soo much more for taking a step back now.
May I also remind you that masturbation is a serious sin… that means even if you dont have intercourse but you touch each other and arouse each other then that’s both a sin and something that will get you nearer and nearer to the limit until you loose yourselves completely.
Believe me… I speak with inside knowlege… And you are right… being close and intimate feels darn good. But waking up the day after you sinned feels like death. You dont wanna even take the risk.
If you truly LOVE HER you will back off.
If you are not ready to get married and have children you are not ready to spend the night together (or sack time during daylight hours either). If she is the love of your life you will wait for marriage and in the meantime learn to exercise one of the greatest gifts a man can give his family, self-discipline and self-control, without which you cannot hope to make it through life as a mature, well adjusted individual.
Aside from the near occassion of sin and scandal reasons, which are on their own good reasons for not doing what you are doing, it is emotionally unhealthy at this point to feel like you need to be in such constant contact/proximity to each other. You are both being too needy going into this, and it is not going to provide you with the strongest possible foundation for a healthy marriage. Love is sacrificial, and in order to have the strong kind of love that a lasting marriage requires, you are going to both need to learn some self-discipline as well as the ability to sacrifice immediate pleasure for long term happiness.
Right now you are getting too intimate with each other, and it is going to cloud your perspective and interfere with your ability to discern whether or not marriage really is the best thing for you both. Some space and some time are really needed. If you find it too difficult, then I definitely would recommend counseling.
Here are some questions.
You say you love her. Would you put her in danger? Would you throw her out of an airplane and how she knows how to use a parachute with no training? Would you push her out of a moving car?
Of course you would not do any of the those things.
But when you tempt her and lead and join her into very grave sexual sins, you put her immortal soul in jeopardy. Not to mention yours as well. So what happens when you get into a car accident the next morning on the way to school or work?
When people really love each other, they care about that person’s immortal soul. If you love her, you will not be a stumbling block or lead her into sin.
That includes the grave sin of scandal.
When people do not love each other, they each other as objects to fulfill their own selfish sexual pleasures. Consent does not matter. One sign of that is pre-marital sex. Another sign is using contraception.
The opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is use.
Oh, and no, I do not believe if you are spending the night you are abstaining from sex. That is just not believable.
Love is a choice. Lust is an urge. Which are you doing?
One thing also to keep in mind, that I have been repeating myself in a bunch of similar threads. BE a GOOD Catholic example to others. Don’t live together, have premarital sex (I believe you that you aren’t planning on it, but don’t even let people think you are doing this), and sleep over at each other’s places as an example for others. People are more impressionable than you think. It DOES matter what others think.
I used to look at other catholic couples who either lived together, or spent a lot of overnight time together and I figured if they did it, and it wasn’t a big deal, it woudln’t be a big deal if I did. So I did… and now I am sad to know I have passed on this bad example to others and now others are also in sinful situations.
And as others said, you can’t go by what “feels” right. You know that!
Excellent advice. I agree completely.
Not to interject the thread and put in an opposite opinion, but…
I’ve never understood this so-called ‘sin of scandal.’ Say, for financial reasons, I live with a girlfriend, but we sleep in different rooms, no sex, etc… If we are not sinning, how can this be considered wrong?
The sin of scandal seems to be a bit of a contradiction to me. If i’m not doing anything wrong, but people may *think *that I am, how are my actions morally wrong?
What about couples on ABC b/c of health reasons. People may not know they are on it for health reasons, it could be scandalous, but its not immoral by the Church’s laws.
I just don’t understand why something that is not immoral can be deemed immoral if it makes other people believe you are being immoral…
Can someone explain this in grave detail?
From the Catechism.
PART 3, SECTION 2 2, CHAPTER 2 2, ARTICLE 5, SUBSECTION 2, HEADING 1 * **Respect for the souls of others: scandal **
2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.
2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” 86 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing. 87
2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.
Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to “social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible.” 88 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger, 89 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.
2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!” 90
Your example of ABC is not a good one. First it is not public. Second, if someone knows a couple is using it and there is a morally acceptable legitimate medial reason (quite rare), then the couple using it is bound to inform those who know they are using it.
Scandal is about the appearance of public sin, not private behavior. You do not know what your neighbor’s sexual practices may be, but you can often know if they are married and living together.
Now, back to the subject of this thread.
rpp: i read your response, and that all makes sense to me.
I may be taking a too ‘political’ a view on this. I guess my point would be that if what I do myself is not wrong, why should it be wrong in any other context. I can see why the church is against these sort of things from the ‘scandalous’ perspective. I think I understand it now, but on some level i disagree with it because i see things too politically. If my actions are not wrong, how can i be condemned by them? But i guess such actions could be wrong if they lead others to sin. I still find it a bit of a stretch, but I understand why the church believes this. I will have to reflect on this further…
EDIT: I see your points on ABC too…
Another way to look at it is in view of Christ’s teaching in Mark 9, Luke 17 about those who cause “one of these little ones” to sin.
We as Catholics are not islands, what we do does have an impact on the entire community. We actually ARE our brothers’ keeper
Politically, if a married government official spent the night at the house of someone of the opposite sex…That = scandal = wrong
Okay, I’m going to echo what everyone else says about not putting yourselves in temptation or leading others to sin - by sleeping together, you’re tempting yourselves to have sex. Sure, maybe you resist, maybe you just hold her, but you still feel the temptation, and you’re opening yourself up to lust and at some point you’ll probably fall. Whose fault will that be? Better to avoid the situation. Plus, you’re giving the impression that you’re sleeping together, which makes other people believe that if it’s okay for you, it’ll be okay for them too, and it probably won’t be.
My other issue, which for me is bigger, is that your expectations of love and marriage seem totally unrealistic. You need to be able to exist on your own. Sure, ideally, marriage will mean being together every night, but things happen. There are business trips, conferences, working late, family emergencies, arguments, injuries, tragedies, hospitalizations, and scheduling conflicts that will sometimes prevent you from being with your wife even after marriage. If you can’t cope during those times, how will you be a good husband and father? That’s not to mention things like normal friendships that will cause you to spend evenings apart occasionally. If you implode when she spends a Sunday afternoon with a friend in need instead of with you, what kind of husband would you be?
I’m getting married soon, and one thing I’m certain of is that if tragedy strikes, either me or my boyfriend would be able to carry on and raise our potential children if the need arose. I wouldn’t be able to marry a man who couldn’t live without me - who would raise the children after I’m gone if need be?
Last point - your #1 goal is graduating? Really? Graduating is great, and I applaud the goal, but why is it your #1 goal? Your goal, if you’re truly ready for this kind of commitment in a relationship, should be to be the best husband and father that you can be. To help each other get to heaven, not just through university. I’m in graduate school myself, and graduation is a huge goal for me because it will provide opportunities for employment that will help my future family. The building of my future family is my #1 goal, not the graduation which is a means to an end. If my boyfriend is in a crisis, I would hand in an assignment late in order to help him - I wouldn’t drop out of school for him, because that goes against supporting my future family, but providing emotional support in a crisis is also important.
Anyway, reevaluate your goals and your independence before you try to live like a married couple - and say those vows you’re fond of making in front of a priest, your family, and God before you live together too!
Here is a scripture passage that also may give you some food for thought. Essentially, we are our brother’s keeper.
17 4 Thus the word of the LORD came to me: Son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel. When you hear a word from my mouth, you shall warn them for me. 18 If I say to the wicked man, You shall surely die; and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his wicked conduct so that he may live: that wicked man shall die for his sin, but I will hold you responsible for his death.
19 If, on the other hand, you have warned the wicked man, yet he has not turned away from his evil nor from his wicked conduct, then he shall die for his sin, but you shall save your life.
20 If a virtuous man turns away from virtue and does wrong when I place a stumbling block before him, he shall die. He shall die for his sin, and his virtuous deeds shall not be remembered; but I will hold you responsible for his death if you did not warn him.
21 When, on the other hand, you have warned a virtuous man not to sin, and he has in fact not sinned, he shall surely live because of the warning, and you shall save your own life.Ezekiel 3:17 - 21 NAB
Another important point to make. Politics should not influence your morality and religion. Rather it is Religion that guides and influences morality and politics. Political correctness is often invariably immoral in that it promotes an idea of no moral absolutes. (e.g. “What is true for you is not true for me.”) God does not change; neither does His word or His law.
I do appreciate the fact that you are trying to figure the truth here. I am not telling you want to think, only trying to offer you a little help. I went through a similar struggle when I converted to the Catholic Church from atheism.
Yes, its still wrong no matter how you “feel”, for all the reasons everyone already gave you.
(and getting seperate places and still planning to spend the night together is messed up too.)
*as for what rusty asked, abc, when being used for medical purposes still calls the couple to be celibate during that time.
there are other options, please see a good Catholic doctor that can lead you in the right direction.