Amazing Muslim Devotion!

Hello
My perception of Islam has changed regularly. But I grew up in a time before and after the twin towers attack so the view was generally negative everywhere. The Islamic state worsened it. But since I started reading about Islam (because I disliked it so) I was fascinated. The five pillars and doctrinal similarities in the abrahamic religions really touched me (Don’t worry I’m not converting:D )

All that aside, why do YOU think they are so devout? There whole lives revolve around god and their days are planned as such. Would you say Christians go about their lives with the same devotion? The only difference I see is their opinions on the divinity of jesus

I’m staying with Christianity but my view of islam has turned for the better. I don’t believe God will send Christians to hell for not being muslim. If in the off case of islam being the true religion I’ll just say sorry to god but that I was praying to him the whole time

As monotheists, they are to be commended. As non-trinitarians, they are off the mark.

God sent His only Son to die upon a cross so that we might be forgiven and live with Him forever. This is love.

Muslims do not know God’s love like this. :nope:

Your above is based on a false assumption. I too once thought that all Muslims were devout and their entire day and lives revolved around God. Then I went to Iraq and found out that Muslims are really no different than everyone else- some take their faith seriously, some don’t, some twist it for their own ends, some do their best to fight said twisting when they see, and most go about their day and their lives with their faith just being another factor in how they live.

Spot on!!! Long live Christ the King!!!

The problem is, the more devout they are, the more likely they are to kill you. I agree there are some very holy and respectable Muslims, but they are the Cafeteria Catholics of their religion. To follow Islam at it’s root, to be the most loyal to its founder’s example, is to be a member of ISIS. People tend to think ISIS are a fringe group and not real Muslims. No, they are the real Muslims. The holy ones are the watered down version.

It may look devout but are they doing it out of love of God or because it is ‘tradition’ or because ‘they have to’.

Lets hope it is out of Love for God.

What troubles me the most is the possibility that their concept of God is *precisely *what drives the barbaric acts we see being committed on daily basis: beheadings, suicide bombings, honor killings, female genital mutilation…

What kind of a God requires these things from His people? :shrug:

Christians are not perfect by any means, but they approach perfection the closer they get to the greatest commandments: loving the Lord with all their hearts and their neighbors as themselves.

Muslims seem to be more perfect followers of Mohammed the more they use force to stamp out anyone who disagrees with Islam

I had close contact with that culture for the last 8 years of my professional life. I never once heard anything about “love for Allah” from a Muslim. It’s too early in the discussion to make this a hard and firm statement, but I do not think that the concept of “love for God” exists in Islam. I am open to correction, with sufficient documentation.

That’s a huge difference, I’d note, and there are a lot more differences than just that. Even the concept of the nature of God is different according to those who have studied Christianity and Islam.

Anyhow, its not a safe assumption to assume that Moslems are universally devout. Adherence to Islamic doctrine various considerably from region to region, and to the degree to which the various societies have governments that allow for any divergence from the official faith. So, for example, if you look at Saudi Arabia are you able to determine which of the observant are truly devout, which simply are unaware of anything else, or which go through the motions as there’s really no other safe choice. Much of the Middle East fits into this category to various degrees, and many Moslems are probably Cultural Moslems as much as anything else, not really particularly devout nor non devout, but just basically observant.

There isn’t a concept like “love for Allah” in mainstream Islam, one does actions due to obligation of a slave to a master. Not out any kind of love.

I have seen the phrase mentioned by non-mainstream sects though.

According to some, the Islamic concept of God is considerably different that the Christian or Jewish one as well. The Christian and Jewish concept is of an unchanging and supremely good and loving God while Islam allows that God is good, but that God’s nature cannot be known or discovered through rational thought. Christianity, at least Catholic Christianity, holds that God’s goodness can be studied and at least partially known, through the study of his creations, the laws of nature, etc. Islam discourages that, and indeed the branch of Islam that once sought to do that after studying the Greek philosophers (that branch which is so often noted to have preserved that body of work) was later regarded as heretical. So there’s a basic difference in the understanding of the nature of God.

Muslims do not perceive God as a loving Father. They see Him as sovereign.

What on earth makes you think muslims are more devout than Christians on the whole?

Granted, you’ll find few Christians willing to make themselves into suicide bombers and I GUESS you could call that “devout” in a warped sense, but it’s not all that impressive to me. The vast majority of muslims in the world do NOT live according to the theoretical disciplines of Islam. Most that I have met (admittedly here in the USA) will drink alcohol in private, skip many to most of the 5 prayers a day, they commit sexual sin at the same rates as anybody else… They’re people: good, but fallen. Sinful and in need of a Savior, just like us.

We know the truth in Jesus Christ and in that truth we know of the GRACE that God gives us and how he Loves us. We have GRACE from God and MUST Remain in GRACE by our prayers and upholding our values. They believe they have to Earn it and only they can obtain it.
To address the muslim culture to be seemingly centered around their faith and daily lives; you must honestly look at their community and culture. Besides religious beliefs or religious customs for them being “out-of-line” or not conforming to tradition is harshly frowned on (or sometimes worse). They live in fear of some sort scolding from others or families of their background. I speak with muslims daily at my work and daily life and the conversations leads to religious discussions 99.9% of the time.
If you feel this daily religious center is missing from Christian life then practice it your daily life and encourage those Christian brothers and sisters you feel are not living by the Christian faith to do so. We must love and support each other as Christ told us to.
I do pray in my daily life and read my Holy Bible daily; follow the daily readings, and enjoy conversing about Scripture with fellow Christians, and non-Christians.

Do not be misled , we have the enclosed Nuns/Monks who pray quite a lot during the day and every day , week in and week out, plus a lot of good Catholics pray quite a lot , for instance like daily Mass, say the Divine Office, make visits to a Church during the day, and once or twice a week when possible make Eucharistic Adoration. Like all Religions
we have the good, bad, and the ugly, the only thing is we don’t have anything like Violence advocated by Our Lord Jesus in fact just the opposite, "Blessed is the Peacemaker. He who lives by the Sword, dies by the Sword.

Plus I have just heard that British Human aid worker Alan Hemming has just been beheaded which brings it to four, the same English Moslem sent a video of the beheading of his fellow citizen to all the News people.

This is what is in the Q 'uran

Qur’anic verses in favor of violence[edit]

Quran in chapter 9 says,
"Freedom from (all) obligations (is declared) from Allah and His Messenger to those of the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah), with whom you made a treaty.[1]
So travel freely (O Mushrikun) for four months (as you will) throughout the land, but know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) Allah, and Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.[2]

And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger to mankind on the greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah — the 12th month of Islamic calendar) that Allah is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikun and so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikun) repent, it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) Allah. And give tidings (to Muhammad) of a painful torment to those who disbelieve.[3]
Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves Al- Mattaqun (the pious — see V.2:2).[4]

Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat(charity), then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[5]
And if anyone of the Mushrikun (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Quran), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.[6]"
—Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 9:1-6

"O you who believe (in Allah’s Oneness and in His Messenger (Muhammad)! Verily, the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, and in the Message of Muhammad) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) after this year, and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you if He will, out of His Bounty. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. [28]

Fight against those who
(1) believe not in Allah,
(2) nor in the Last Day,
(3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger
(4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [29]

And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth! [30]"
—Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 9:28-30

Quran chapter 8 says,
“(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, “Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes.”[12]
This is because they defied and disobeyed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then verily, Allah is Severe in punishment.[13]”
—Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 8:12-13

“Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).[38]
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.[39]”
—Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 8:38-39
—End Quote—
—End Quote—

Other than to say something like: that’s the way it was.

—Quote (Originally by Linusthe2nd)—
Hasn’t the world been trying to do that since 649 A.D. Seems to me the problem is with Islam itself.

You are aware our wonder “ally” in the ME, importer of so much oil, and personal buddies with the Bushies, Saudi Arabia, beheads people all the time?

I’ve never read anything more ridiculous in all my life.

Friends, we in the Western world criticise the Muslims for not rebuking and protesting against such extremist views as ISIS etc.

I believe this to be true, we should unite against evil.

The root cause of all evil is promotion of false ideologies and ignorant statements marginalising segments of society. We should all arise to correct and demote statements such as this. It’s blatant prejudice!

.

Dear friend, may I suggest you study the true teachings of Islam rather than listening to 8 years of human frailty.

The last time I listened to a Catholic, I too was convinced that there was not one love for God. But alas, after reading the Church’s teachings, I became convinced what true Catholicism is, and how loveable a religion it can be!

:slight_smile:

.

*“Fight those who do not believe in Allah” (Surah 9:29)

“I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them” (Surah 8:12)

“Seek out your enemies relentlessly.” (Surah 4:104)

“Do not take the Jews and Christians for friends” (Surah 5:51)

“The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: ‘Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!’” (Sahih Bukhari 004.52.176)
*
Who follows more of these verses, the members of ISIS or secular Muslims? Which should we consider as more devout?

To answer the OP, I shared similar sentiments as you until I spent some time in the Middle East. The whole, “pious Muslims, decadent Westerners” is a myth many are all too happy to perpetuate.

I did say that I was open for correction, if someone can show me in the Qur’an or the Hadith where Allah loves humanity, or where humans are supposed to love Allah.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.