Amazon ---What will Pope Francis Choose

2 Likes

I can’t read Portuguese, but from what I do understand about Romantic languages, it looks like Cardinal Robert Sarah is tasked with researching the proposed “Amazon Rite”. I have a good feeling he will keep with Orthodoxy and Canon Law and not allow the formation of a new rite.

God willing. Pray for him and the Pope :pray:

6 Likes

I agree, Cardinal Sarah is about as solid as one can get for “getting it right”. He is a formidable man of faith.

7 Likes

I don’t understand why this is not known more about Cardinal Sarah. I tried researching it yesterday and found only one site that seemed only an opinion area. wondering if this is fake news…time will tell.

I like the word ostensibly, though not in the context it’s set in.

Cardinal Sarah is a great man, and very orthodox. My parish priest quotes him often. I have renewed faith knowing he is on the job.

4 Likes

Or somewhere in-between? Or whatever?

No crystal ball…

We shall see what we shall see.

1 Like

The only thing I have seen about this was when Pope Francis stated in an interview that the task of creating an Amazon rite could be given to the Congregation of Divine Worship - of which Cardinal Sarah is the Prefect. So if this is indeed what happens, then Cardinal Sarah would be the one in charge of developing such a rite. I too would believe that he would be the best choice if an Amazon rite had to be developed.

The only glaring problem with this…is that Cardinal Sarah’s five-year term as head of the CDW expires later this month. And there is good reason to believe that he will be replaced, similarly to how Cardinal Muller was removed from the CDF when his term expired a couple of years ago. So I think that this bit of speculation will ultimately turn out to be false, not maybe because of false reporting, but due to a future change in the Vatican.

1 Like

If I’m a betting man I’d guess ambiguous language that appeases a progressive view but nothing definitive. Like much of the issues of this papacy it will be for another pope to decide.

2 Likes

I would think that the best scenario that we can reasonably expect from Pope Francis is the following:

A special Amazonian rite is created. In that rite, the so-called “proven men” business will be permitted.

For the rest of the Latin rite, things will stay as they are.

I hope for the best. However, Pope Francis, unfortunately, is too much of a softie. As I have said previously, he means well, and he certainly cares about the faithful and the faith, but he is too soft. He is not a great leader for our time, in my opinion. Unlike previous popes, I don’t have strong confidence in the present Holy Father.

All of the repetitive parroting about the special exceptions in the Latin rite for married priests, and how married priests are allowed outside of the Latin rite? Yeah, that’s swell and all, but how about we spend an equal amount of time discussing why prudential judgement has maintained this important practice in the Latin rite for so long?

What of a priest whose allegiance is divided between the pressure of his faithless/heretical children? Are we supposed to not worry, because some (to be quite frank) poobahs handwave any concerns, saying that he is a “proven man”?

The Lord helps those who help themselves, and I think that we really need to do that right now.

2 Likes

What is the objection to an Amazonian rite? If Western Europe and its descendants can have a Latin rite, and Greek East has its own rite, and they Syriacs, melkites etc can have their own rites, why can’t the amazonians?

1 Like

Orthodox doesn’t necessarily = good. Or preferable. Or better.

What is this a response to?

The general gist that Amazonian changes are unwanted because they’re unorthodox.

The authors of that article seem unaware of two things. First, Cardinal Sarah is only nominally head of the CDW, and was effectively stripped of his actual authority years ago when Pope Francis stacked the congregation with his own supporters, in 2016, leaving Cardinal Sarah with little more than his name on an office door. And second, that, within a couple of weeks, Cardinal Sarah will almost certainly lose even that nominal role when his position come up for renewal. It is hard to imagine that Pope Francis would not eagerly replace him with someone more to his liking and more aligned to his way of thinking.

4 Likes

When this whole ordeal first came to the fore, I wouldn’t have even thought of the creation of an Amazonian rite. But it’s actually a reasonable compromise (note the word “reasonable” in that sentence).

My only concern is that some may look at that as setting a precedent that they can abuse. What I mean is that we could begin to see more situations like this come about, and we start seeing the Universal Church be not universal at all, with the use of “rites” as a way to game the system.

Many people who in prior eras would have broken away and started their own “church” have gotten wise to the fact that that doesn’t work out as they hoped in the end. So, instead, they proceed to attempt to remould the Church in their own image. This is not actually a new approach, of course. But in the past, people who would try this would not be entertained seriously as much, would be excommunicated, or would eventually give up (depending upon the circumstances and the people involved).

Remember, there are always going to be people who will try to game the system. They strongly believe in “If at first you don’t succeed; try, try again”. If some particularly wayward clerics can devise a way to use petitions for the creation of new rites to somehow make the universal Church less universal in its beliefs than it is, they will do so.

4 Likes

Well hearing that is super concerning and a big buzz kill. sigh

1 Like

He’s a softie unless it comes to scolding Traditional Catholics or Americans. And most of the time, he seems upset at something that he himself (or those around him) misinterpreted. For example, he seems to think that the pachamama idols were thrown into the river because of hatred of the Amazon people. That is absolutely false; what is hated is the idolatry and underhanded scheming of the people involved in the synod. In fact, it is quite evil of the progressive bishops who were running that synod to use the Amazon people as an excuse to push their tired and awful agendas. Essentially, the Amazonians were human shields for the bishops proposing these ridiculous ideas.

At this point, it is clear that the Pope sees human beings through a left-wing, worldly lens. He seems to bestow holiness on people based on their lot in life, their socio-economic class, their degree of “victimhood.” Thus, to him, “the poor” are holy, migrants are holy, those “affected” by “climate change” are holy, etc. It is a very simple and naive worldview, quite childlike in fact. He seems to assume that all Americans are well-off and without struggle, unless they fall into one of those aforementioned categories.

In any case, the ideas proposed for this Amazon synod are useless, with the exception of some type of extremely restricted rite. The other ideas are failures. Expanding married priests, but moreso any type of female ordination would just exponentially erode the Church. Many Protestant denominations have already adopted these failed ideas, which did nothing for their churches except empty them out.

5 Likes

Just wait until December…two years to discuss married priests, women deacons. etc.

I unfortunately have to wait four hours until I could like this post, but I just wanted to let you know that I do like it.

I also wanted to add that one of the things that the Synod was trying to push was “sustainable development”. Which is just fancy talk for UN population control.

2 Likes
DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.