American Catholic Church

So, last week, I attended a funeral at St. Mathias Catholic Church.

It looked Catholic.

I sounded Catholic.

For awhile.

Then there were little differences

So, I spoke with the priest. Said it was the American Catholic Church. He said it was in communion with the Vatican, but had differences.

Anyone ever heard of this?

It’s a breakaway group from the Old Catholic Church. I would check with your diocese/archdiocese in TX to check if they are in communion with Rome. In my experience, there are some “Catholic” churches that have been known to deceive people into thinking they are in communion with Rome, esp. when it comes to certain sacraments and their stipends. :nope:

Well, the reply of the Priest was:

Mark 8For leaving the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men,

the biggest issue is things that are not of God, but of men. Like annulment, which was not a deal until fairly recently.

There are others, too.

They seem to be saying to Roman Catholics what Jesus said to Jews.

The American Catholic Church is one of the many “Old Catholic” sects out there. Many of them claim valid apostolic succession through Utrecht, but most of these sects are not in communion with the Old Catholic see of Utrecht and most of them got their apostolic succession ruined when they began ordaining women.

There are a few groups which go by the American Catholic Church, all with very dubious lines of succession, all of which ordain women (and openly gay individuals).

Are they against God? Jesus said whoever is not against God is for God

Jesus said to the 72

Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."

The “American catholic church” has rejected the Catholic Church, rejected Apostolic Succession, and thus rejected the ones Jesus sent. Why on earth would you go there when there are plenty of valid Catholic parishes?

Wikipedia has this to say about the “AMERICAN CATHOLIC CHURCH”:

The American Catholic Church in the United States (ACCUS) is a small Independent Catholic denomination originating in the Old Catholic Church…]. The ACCUS, which was founded in 1999, holds some similar theological beliefs and practices to the Roman Catholic Church. It is not in communion with the Roman Catholic Church or under Papal jurisdiction. Its website states: “The ACCUS and its affiliated Worldwide jurisdictions are not under the jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Church and are therefore not subject to the same rules and regulations.”
Overview…]

This church belongs to the family of the Old Catholic churches…, from which it derives its claim to apostolic succession. It is in communion with some Old Catholic and Anglican/Episcopalian Churches…
The American Catholic Church in the United States shares some theological and moral teachings with the Roman Catholic Church, however there are major differences. The ACCUS is a post-Vatican II Church which teaches that nonjudgementalism takes precedence in regard to more difficult questions. The ACCUS purports to reject what it deems “legalistic moral pronouncements” regarding such issues, holding that one’s faith in Jesus Christ along with an informed and enlightened conscience, molded on the Gospel principles of truth, justice, compassion and love, should be the ultimate motivating force in one’s life.
The ACCUS does not require its priests, deacons, bishops or other clergy and/or religious members to be celibate. Members of the clergy may be married, in a domestic partnership, divorced, or widowed. The ACCUS also allows for the ordination of women. It also does not discriminate on the basis of gender, sexual orientation, race, age, marital status, or previous religious affiliations.
All members of the clergy are required to support themselves through outside employment; clergy are prohibited from receiving a fee for the sacramental services they perform, however, they are allowed to receive gifts and monetary offerings (stipends) so long as they are not the ones suggesting the amount to be given.
Historyedit]

Theology and practices…

The American Catholic Church in the United States celebrates the seven sacraments of: Baptism, First Communion, Reconciliation, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, and Last Rites. It claims to adheres to “the essential Catholic doctrine and practice as expressed and implied in the statements of Vatican Council II, and in the light of the best contemporary thought.”[3] It also “rejects artificial barriers to the reception of the Sacraments based on marital status, sexuality or orientation.”[4]
Ordained clergy of the ACCUS may marry or be united in a gay/lesbian union.[

Thus, IF the above is the “church” of which you speak - it is, simply, just ONE of the couple of hundred ecclesial groups in the USA which contain in it’s name the words “Catholic” or “Roman Catholic”, and which - like the Society of St Pius X (SSPX) - are NOT in full communion with the Catholic Church. ](“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Catholic_Church_in_the_United_States#cite_note-5”)

Don’t be fooled. It was not a Catholic Church in communion with Rome, and you should not attend mass there or receive the eucharist.

49And John, answering, said: Master, we saw a certain man casting out devils in thy name, and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us. 50And Jesus said to him: Forbid him not; for he that is not against you, is for you.

I attended because I went to the funeral of a dear friend.

Sorry if that is offensive.

No, he said to the apostles, he who is not against YOU, is for you. In other words, those people were on their way possibly to find the truth.

He said about himself, He who is not with me, is AGAINST ME. Matt 12:30

God cannot contradict himself.

Eventually there is no middle ground, the more you recognize the truth, the more you realize we are all presented with a choice to follow God or not, and in the case of this thread, it does not sound like they are being obedient.

One cannot be neutral about God in the end.

I don’t see how anyone could be offended by you attending a particular non-catholic church for a funeral. The advice was on the topic of whether the church was in communion with Rome. It is not. It is open to anyone to take that advice or not in all good conscience; but a catholic must have an informed conscience.

Eww… another schismatic group. Don’t go there anymore.

Did he really say “in communion with the Vatican?” If so, it is shocking. That would be fraud.

No one said that was offensive. They are saying that it is not in communion with Rome/Vatican, it is not Roman Catholic, and its sacraments are not valid for Catholics who are in communion with the Vatican. In addition, if you are Roman Catholic, you cannot receive the sacraments in other churches…not American Catholic, not Baptist, not Methodist, not Jewish…with a few exceptions that are very rare and you would be unlikely to encounter.

For me, it’s important to know. Why should or would I go to a pretend Catholic Church when I can receive valid sacraments around the corner?

Attend your funerals, weddings, etc at non-Catholic churches, but do not receive their sacraments, no matter what they tell you. Many of these ‘false Catholic’ churches are ‘feel good’ churches. “Look at us! We are not celibate! We allow everyone to the Eucharist (which isn’t valid, anyway)! The billions of other Catholics are all WRONG and we are right.”

Let us look at it…

25And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand. 26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself: how then shall his kingdom stand? 27And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you. 29Or how can any one enter into the house of the strong, and rifle his goods, unless he first bind the strong? and then he will rifle his house.

30He that is not with me, is against me

Again, taken with Luke 9, it sure seems to be saying that just because you do n ot do things exactly the same way does not mean you are not of God.

And again, what some complain about is that form (tradition) often overrules substance. Jesus decried the traditions of men.

Should’t we be careful?

TexanKnight,

What are you trying to get at? Your reasoning is based on emotion and a quote from the Bible taken out of context. In Catholicism, we have more than the Bible. We have the teaching authority of the Church. And this authority to teach was give to the Church, and in particular to Peter and his successors (the Popes) by none other than God Himself. Are you asking us for permission to leave Catholicism for another “church” that claims to be Catholic? If so, no one is stopping you. All we are saying is that you’d be making a big mistake. If you disagree and refuse to listen to us then there’s nothing more we can say to you.

Matthew 18:17
“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.”

:thumbsup:

Actually, I was the one putting it IN context. And no, I am not asking permission for anything. I simply do not find your reading of it persuasive when looking at history. And I old also quote scripture about vain traditions and mouths talking but hearts far away, but I won’t.

And I am not leaving anything. Just thinking out loud after attending a funeral.

The difference between Jesus admonishing the Jews in that time and their vain practices , is they are to be seen in the context of how hypocritical they were at the time, because they were very worldly, and Jesus knew their hearts. It cannot be superficially applied to Traditions of men today, in a haphazard generalized way, because the groups are not equal.

I’ve seen some priests who went against the pope, try to use this logic, that the Magisterium and Rome doesn’t quite understand Jesus as he does, and that back in Jesus day, he did things differently. While we as Catholic can fall into the pride of the Pharisees, there isn’t going to be a repeat of the mistakes, because Christ is the fulfillment of the Covenant when he came and rebuked the Jews of his days.

Christ IS the Church. This is the kind of thinking that allowed the Protestants and heretic sects, to say the Church can be on the wrong side of Jesus is to say Jesus can be on the wrong side of Jesus.

Anyway, the context of He who is not With Me is against Me, is to be read with He who Hears YOU , hears ME.

In other words, the American Catholic Church ordains women priests and is green lighting homosexuality. That is against Christ, and Jesus was not against Tradition entirely.

Just because Jesus admonished the mentality where one believes that Man was made for the Sabbath, rather than the Sabbath for man, he didn’t say, so don’t observe the Sabbath anymore.

Matthew 5:17
““Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”

Jesus was not against Tradition, otherwise, he wouldn’t have instituted a Church to uphold it from the beginning.

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