Amoris Laetitia - If you oppose it, your wrong

The fact of the matter is that people can be in objectively grave sin yet remain in a state of grace due to extenuating circumstances. Point blank, period.

Uh, okay?

So the Pope said that we should discern whether or not people are in a state of grace, and if they are, then we should admit them to the Sacraments. This is nothing but Orthodox doctrine.

I don’t really have a opinion either way.

But could you elaborate a little more? Like give a example of would be extenuating circumstances?

Thanks

It is impossible for anyone to know if a person is in a state of grace. They are not in a state of grace by simply claiming to be.

Like, say you’re D&R with a total psychopath with whom you have children, and who would beat you to death if you stopped having sex with, or even worse, tried to leave them. That’s an extenuating circumstance. It’s OK to keep sleeping with the homicidal psychopath in this case.

Thank you

Grateful you squared that away. If you could just shoot off a memo to the Magisterium we’ll wrap this thing up.

Grateful you squared that away. If you could just shoot off a memo to the Magisterium we’ll wrap this thing up.

:thumbsup: Didn’t realize the answer was so quick and simple according to some laity.
It’s a complex issue with many facets to the issue and extenuating circumstances as noted.

Mary.

*Not *what Amoris Leatitia says actually.

Need to read the whole document and the rest of the discipline of the Church and all that the Church Teaches (including the Pope Francis and his predecessors).

It is not a matter of opposing AL but understanding it and applying it at the Church Teaches etc.

Since one cannot sin without feely knowing and choosing to do it, how can one be guilty of objective grave sin, yet still be in a state of grace?

:thumbsup:

This.

It would be impossible to be “in a state of grace”. However, it would be possible (theoretically speaking), in some cases and for some sins, to have committed a sin that is objectively grave, and yet just be in a state of venial sin. In this case, reception of the Eucharist is possible.

However, that’s a difficult one to discern in this particular case. In order to make the case for “venial sin”, one would either have to assert that they did not know that divorce & remarriage implies adultery, or that they did not deliberately consent to the remarriage (and subsequent adulterous sin). That’s a tough one to assert with a straight face… :sad_yes:

Spot on. :thumbsup:

Sorry, I can’t see how the compounding of serious sins leads to a state of grace. Serious discernment would, I think, necessarily lead a person to understand that their choices have caused a separation from the sacraments of reconciliation and the eucharist. That having realized this they would start the hard work required to bring them back to a state of grace instead of laying down their cross and saying in effect sin really doesn’t matter.

TaylorDonBarret.

I affirm Amoris Laetitia. I also affirm ALL the other Catholic teachings too.

You said . . . .

So the Pope said that we should discern whether or not people are in a state of grace

WHERE did the Pope teach this?

Do you think all people asking for more CLARIFICATION on Amoris Laetitia are “wrong” for asking for “clarification” on certain points which have already had diametrically differing interpretations?

Do you think THAT is wrong too?

Are all those people “opposers” in your estimation?

I’ll await your quote and input and take it from there.

God bless.

Cathoholic

It is possible to determine whether one is in a state of grace. All one has to do is look within themselves and discern whether or not they have the pure and holy love of God in their heart. If a person truly loves Jesus, then they are in a state of grace. Period. Mortal sin destroys the charity within ones heart. If a person has charity in their heart then they are not in a state of mortal sin.

What does the apostle Paul say about this issue? He tells people to examine themselves. He obviously believes that people will be capable of determining whether or not they are in fact in a state of grace, or he would not have told them to examine themselves.

If a person truly believes they are in a state of grace, and if love for Christ compels them to want to go forward to receive the Eucharist, then it is my opinion that they should be allowed to do so. Period.

It was Jesus who said that if a person divorces his wife and marries another, he commits adultery. He remains married to the first wife because marriage is permanent. So why would a person believe that it is okay to have sexual relations with someone who is not his wife and therefore everything is fine? He makes a mockery of the words of Jesus.

What one believes or ones opinion for that matter does not enter into the equation. The first work of the grace of the Holy Sprit is conversion, affecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel; “Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand”. Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin. Evil and good cannot coexist. Period.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.