An interesting hypothetical concerning sacramentals


#1

If sacramentals confer different levels and types graces on the basis of the action/prayer of the Church (along with the individual dispositions of the faithful), instead of in and of themselves, then doesn't it stand to reason - for example - that there's a possibility that "EF" holy water, "OF" holy water, and "DL" holy water have different levels and types of efficacy?

Please don't let this devolve into a Liturgical War, btw. I just found the thought fascinating.


#2

Since sacramentals work by the application of the prayer of blessing said concerning them, different prayers would, it seems to me, make a difference. Then again that difference in the blessing might not translate into differences in what God does for you.


#3

Interesting! You are preposing that sacramentals can contain different graces based on:

action/prayer of the Church (along with the individual dispositions of the faithful)

Are not the EF and OF the same church? So that wouldn't change anything. What is DL by the way? (sorry don't know all the abbreviations). The individual prayer or blessing said over the sacramental might change things, but that wouldn't have any bearing on the EF/OF/DL differences..that would be personal priest differences, or the preferences they have in using different blessings. The only other difference would be the disposition of the faithful...which again would be individual cases.

You might have to give specific examples of sacramentals and the blessings used for them to determine just what the differences might be. Are the blessings for holy water different in latin and in english? Are the meanings of the words different? I don't know!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question though.


#4

[quote="Garyjohn2, post:3, topic:265339"]
Interesting! You are preposing that sacramentals can contain different graces based on:

Are not the EF and OF the same church? So that wouldn't change anything. What is DL by the way? (sorry don't know all the abbreviations). The individual prayer or blessing said over the sacramental might change things, but that wouldn't have any bearing on the EF/OF/DL differences..that would be personal priest differences, or the preferences they have in using different blessings. The only other difference would be the disposition of the faithful...which again would be individual cases.

You might have to give specific examples of sacramentals and the blessings used for them to determine just what the differences might be. Are the blessings for holy water different in latin and in english? Are the meanings of the words different? I don't know!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question though.

[/quote]

My understanding is that the "action of the Church" refers to the prayers the priests say over the water, the priest acting with the authority given to him for and by the Church. The prayers of blessing water for the EF, OF, and Divine Liturgy are all different. I'd think several different prayers constitute several different choices of action.


#5

[quote="WoundedIcon, post:4, topic:265339"]
My understanding is that the "action of the Church" refers to the prayers the priests say over the water, the priest acting with the authority given to him for and by the Church. The prayers of blessing water for the EF, OF, and Divine Liturgy are all different. I'd think several different prayers constitute several different choices of action.

[/quote]

Ah I see. Do you have a link or anything to the different prayers? I think that is the key to speculating as to whether different graces could possibly be bestowed. How different are they?

I'm having a hard time finding them myself, but I think that is they key to discerning if this is possible (even if we are not experts in the types and varieties of graces, its fun to discuss). :)


#6

This link contains both old and new Roman blessings.

daytonlatinmass.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/blessing-of-water.pdf


#7

As I understand it, (and I may be faulty in my understanding), sacramentals do not give grace but can lead you to grace. So if my rosary leads me to pray regularly, that brings me closer to God and will give me grace. The blessing on my rosary has nothing to do with that, just reminds me that this is not a fancy necklace but something to be used to commune with the Lord.

In the case of Holy water, it would be to remind me of my baptism and the vows associated with it.

In neither case would the grace have anything to do with how it was blessed or even if it was blessed as long as I am reminded of the appropriate associations.

In any case, that is my $0.02


#8

[quote="phoage, post:7, topic:265339"]
As I understand it, (and I may be faulty in my understanding), sacramentals do not give grace but can lead you to grace. So if my rosary leads me to pray regularly, that brings me closer to God and will give me grace. The blessing on my rosary has nothing to do with that, just reminds me that this is not a fancy necklace but something to be used to commune with the Lord.

In the case of Holy water, it would be to remind me of my baptism and the vows associated with it.

In neither case would the grace have anything to do with how it was blessed or even if it was blessed as long as I am reminded of the appropriate associations.

In any case, that is my $0.02

[/quote]

They are sacramentals and, as such, they produce the following specific effects:

Excitation of pious emotions and affections of the heart and, by means of these, remission of venial sin and of the temporal punishment due to it.
Freedom from power of evil spirits;
Preservation and restoration of bodily health.
Various other benefits, temporal or spiritual. 

All these effects are not necessarily inherent in any one blessing; some are caused by one formula, and others by another, according to the intentions of the Church.


#9

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