An interesting remark


#1

I read the following little rant, and started to wonder…

Many (perhaps even most) Catholics are heretics and functional apostates. They want to have contraceptive sex with their live-in girlfriends. They want to receive communion unworthily the two masses a year they actually attend. They want to drop $3 in the offertory basket and then criticize churches for not doing more to help the poor. Most Catholics, frankly, suck.

What is your opinion about it? Agree? Disagree?


#2

True.

But I doubt it’s confined to just Catholics. You could probably make the same case for any religion.


#3

I don’t know most Catholics, but I do know that this quote does not apply to ones I know.


#4

Many (perhaps even most) Catholics are heretics and functional apostates.

For the most part I would say that my experience has been consistent with this statement. I wouldn’t limit that to Catholicism. My experience with many Christians in general has been that there’s some minimally accepted level of behaviour that is sufficient for keeping some one within the in-group of many Christian communities. That minimum behaviour has usually been just declaring love for Jesus and that one’s self is in perfect but only God can be the judge of one’s self, and occasionally expressing repentance for sins. Within some communities there may be a few more things one has to do, but for the most part that seems to be sufficient for maintaining some level of social acceptability.

They want to have contraceptive sex with their live-in girlfriends.

Yes, the unmarried Catholics I know do have sex. Though one says makes the sacrifice of not having sex for lent. Many of them use contraceptives. Some of them don’t. Of the one’s that take oral contraceptives avoiding pregnancy one of many motivations though. Avoiding taking sick time at work and avoiding anemia are some others.

They want to receive communion unworthily the two masses a year they actually attend.

Twice a year is a higher frequency of visitation than what I’ve seen.

They want to drop $3 in the offertory basket and then criticize churches for not doing more to help the poor.

I’ve never heard them complain about what their church does or does not do. Though some have stated they think their church is out of touch with modern times.

Most Catholics, frankly, suck.

I wouldn’t say that they suck. I would say that the noise I’ve heard in the political sphere about the apparent views of Catholics doesn’t seem to reflect them.


#5

I agree. Nuff said.


#6

Sad, but true.
Frankly, I’m not too worried about ‘them’ these days. Just trying not to be one myself, and raise 4 good little catholics! I pray for all of us. The thing that really grinds my gears is the thinking that most (people in general) have that…“Hey you used to drink/smoke pot/have sex/ etc…and now you are all ‘holy’…well you are a hypocrite!!”


#7

Well, I go to a Catholic college....and at least going by the people here, I'd disagree with that statement.

But, we are quite a small university...that wouldn't reflect the state of the Catholic Church in general.

However, I'd be wary of generalizing. Even if I weren't here, I think I would disagree with that it.


#8

If you find comments like these to be discouraging or true, surround yourself by some holy, true Catholics. There are many:

Go to Latin Mass and you’ll meet young people and others who love tradition and the Eucharist.

Go to daily Mass and you’ll meet people of all ages who are in love with the Lord and know the best way to start their day.

Go to a Charismatic meeting or Mass and you’ll meet people on fire for the Lord who love their neighbor and would never think to judge the state of other people’s souls.

Quietly pray the rosary with your guardian angel and you’ll meet a person, yourself, who loves deeply and prays for those who are missing out on these kinds of experiences.


#9

[quote="Serious, post:1, topic:279235"]
I read the following little rant, and started to wonder...

What is your opinion about it? Agree? Disagree?

[/quote]

I disagree that "most Catholics suck" the rest did make me pause and wonder:confused:Out of curiosity whats the source of your quote.


#10

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


#11

I find many Catholics no matter how much they are doing feel like they are not doing enough. I find it admirable.


#12

Well, I think it’s true that many Catholics regularly and even blithely commit the sins you describe.

But there are two big problems with that quote. I’ll start with the less important one and end with the more important one:

(1) Even the Catholics you’ve described are not “heretics” or even functional “apostates.” Those are very precise ecclesiastical terms that should not be thrown around flippantly. A heretic is one who obstinately denies a truth of the faith, in defiance of Church teaching, Scripture, and/or Tradition. An apostate has formally and entirely rejected the faith.

Neither of these terms applies to a Catholic who regularly has contraceptive sex with a life-in partner, or skips Mass, etc. Are such Catholics great sinners? Yes. But are they heretics? No. To call them heretics is an insult to intellectual precision.

(2) Most importantly, focusing on the sinfulness of others is just a bad thing to do spiritually. It’ll make you bitter, and potentially even prideful/haughty. Harboring such thoughts willingly is a perfect way to become like the Pharisee in the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican. Keep your eyes on the Lord and on your own journey away from sinfulness, not on others’ conduct.

Well said.


#13

Probably true. Yes, there are exceptions at Latin Mass, and weekday Mass, but in my experience, that’s a tiny percentage, less than ten. I almost never see anyone else at Confession.


#14

very dim view of other Catholics. yes there are some that may fit but to say that most Catholics suck is really very disparaging and I wonder if the the author of the quote is including themselves. There will always be those that don’t live up to their faith and practice it as they should but to label and say the most Catholics suck is really uncalled for. I didn’t become Catholic because there may be a number of Catholics that practice their faith as they should, I became Catholic because it is the true church founded by Christ. I don’t go to church looking at others and wondering if this person or that person is being true to their faith. I don’t go around trying to judge others about the practice of their faith. I try to be faithful to Christ and his Church and BE THE EXAMPLE to others. What has this author of this quote done about CAtholics that suck, has that author prayed for them, gone to adoration for them, became involved in their parish to be an example. I get tired of nasty generalizations of other Catholics. Yes many should not vote for pro-abortion candidates but I make sure I do the right thing. There are many faithful Catholics they do not practice contraception, there are many to are very faithful to their faith and try to the best of their ability to practice Church teaching and to have stupid comments like “most Catholics suck” really is not needed and what has that person done about it.


#15

Why? So we can be duped into the neo-Pentacostal movement of half converts and non-Catholics to spew indefinable words and write it off as “tongues”? I’m sure Montanists, Jansenists, “French Prophets”, Ranters, wackos of Azusa Street, etc. would all feel at home at a Charistmatic Mass. The faithful will stand with a Mass that aims for detahcment and complete worship and not for interest and tingling feelings. Might want to research the history of this movement before acting as their billboard.

OP: Agreed.


#16

A little harsh but, somewhat accurate. All building up to a great apostasy. Sad but true.


#17

Here’s a bit of history, a quote from our late Holy Father.

“…This is my first meeting with you, Catholic charismatics . . . I have always belonged to this renewal in the Holy Spirit. . . . I am convinced that this movement is a sign of his action. The world is much in need of this action of the Holy Spirit, and it needs many instruments for this action. . . . Through this action, the Holy Spirit comes to the human spirit, and from this moment we begin to live again, to find our very selves, to find our identity, our total humanity. Consequently, I am convinced that this movement is a very important component in the total renewal of the church, in this spiritual renewal of the church.” -Blessed Pope John Paul II

I don’t think I’m a billboard for any of the devotions that I mentioned, but maybe someday. :wink: I was just noting that there are passionate, pious Catholics out there that express their faith in varied and sometimes overlapping ways. I am thankful for the diversity in the Church, so long as that diversity always expresses allegiance to our Pope and to the Bishops.

There is so much joy (a fruit of the Holy Spirit) available in the true Church, founded by Christ!

If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31


#18

The same Pope who had pagans from Africa perform demonic ritualistic dances in a Mass? And let’s not forget his respect of the pagan book of Muslims by kissing it in ceremony. By quoting this person to validate a movement outside Church tradition is problematic given his history. He was a good man but made some bad decisions. I side with infallibility, and history shows these corrolating movements always being condemned by the Church. I’ll give Charismatics another ten or so years before being expelled.

Also piety isn’t a ruling factor in judgment, remember Jansenists could be seen, by lesser intellectuals, as an extremely pious practice given the high scrupulous conditions the person must be in to receive sacraments. Obedience, through detachment, to the Church is the first and foremost factor in any spirituality, movement or practice. A good example is a certain modern “apparition”, who’s name we cannot disclose due to forum policy, people worship and yet display extreme disobedience to the Bishops and peddle the supposed “fruits”, such as piety, as evidence. Funny enough, it was Charistmatics who endorsed them from the beginning and still do.

A rose by any other name…


#19

Maybe this helps explain why I have a different attitude from the quote in the OP, but actually, I almost always see other people at confession. That’s true in the diocese in which I used to live, and it’s true for me in the diocese in which I now live (I’ve moved to a different state).

Well said! Thank you for your wise words. :slight_smile:

:rolleyes:

Sorry, dude, I’ve known devout, faithful, orthodox Catholics involved in the charismatic renewal. They’re not Jansenists, wackos, or ranters. You’re just incorrect.

False. That’s an urban legend, sprung from the knee-jerk reactions of ignorant people who cannot understand that a European aesthetic is not a necessary part of Christian worship.

On the matter of that particular “apparition,” I agree wholeheartedly with you. But you can’t hold it against all charismatics any more than you can hold it against all Franciscans.


#20

The first post on this thread was written by Serious who is on the A-team.

Instead of ignoring his dumb quotation, which he probably wrote himself,
Catholics have been fooled into discussing it.

The A-team is having a big laugh over this one. :rotfl:

I’m disappointed. :crying:

He should have been told to shut up and go look at the Catholics who have performed heroically to serve their God and fellow man.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.