Ancient dieties or demons


#1

I was rather astounded at the level of vitriol in a recent closed thread and wondered if it was simply an “ad hominem” attack or if it really was an accurate reflection of current Catholic thought vis-a-vis ancient pantheons. Certain writers made the (at least to me) rather far-fetched assertion that all ancient “dieties” were in fact nothing more than demons and that we “gambled” with our immortal souls because demons are “sneaky”.

This really concerned me although I could not get anyone to answer my query amongst all the mud slinging going on. As a grad level anthropology and history major (and Catholic), I have to wonder what I missed in thirteen years of Catholic grade and high school education. Has there been some sort of recent Church teaching which equates ancient dieties with demons? Does this mean that “bright-eyed Pallas Athene” mentioned in the Illiad and Odyssey is in reality some snarling concupiscient demon from hell waiting to ensnare my soul because I happened to read a Western classic? I would really like some sort of answer about this from those who made the comparison. If Mesoamerican dieties are demons what about all the other pantheons? Is there a cultural relativity that OK, we’ll accept Greek and Roman but not XYZ?


#2

I will PM you about it.God Bless


#3

No, not all ancient dieties were demons. And not all ancient dieteis were good. The diety in question happened to be one of the bad ones.


#4

It seems that since all peoples had gods of one sort or another

I like to think of this as a natural yearning
And a partial if incomplete understanding of God

I mean, the Trinity is not the easiest concept to grasp…mistaking It for separate gods is at least a beginning

As for demons posing as gods; I’m sure that happened too

Are Catholics as inheritors of Greek & Roman culture more biased against non-Geek/Roman myths? Probably.

The odd thing of course is the place of humans and knowledge in the various myths

Both Prometheus and Lucifer brought knowledge to man…and both were punished for it

Some people use the similarities of ancient stories to discredit the Bible as just one more out of the crowd

But it makes sense to me that God would try to reveal Himself to as much of creation as possible

It is the limits of our understanding and wisdom that affects how clear the message got through


#5

I thought demons were more akin to devils? So what’s the diff between a demon and a devil?


#6

since ancient deities like the Greek or Egyptian gods and godesses did not and do not exist, then they are neither gods nor demons, they are characters in a series of mythical tales. The only “ancient Deity” who does exist is the God of the Jews, the one true God. His enemy is Satan, a created being, created as an angel, a pure spirit, who rejected God utterly and completely, with a third of the angels, who now are allowed to work as demons tempting and “bedevilling” man and nature. Demons are not gods either, they are created beings.


#7

[quote=brotherhrolf]I was rather astounded at the level of vitriol in a recent closed thread and wondered if it was simply an “ad hominem” attack or if it really was an accurate reflection of current Catholic thought vis-a-vis ancient pantheons. Certain writers made the (at least to me) rather far-fetched assertion that all ancient “dieties” were in fact nothing more than demons and that we “gambled” with our immortal souls because demons are “sneaky”.


Perhaps you are not aware of the posts that appeared on other threads over the past six weeks. Tha individual who honored an Aztec God ( which isn’t all that ancient - 500 years ago) was the one who prompted the closure of tha other thread. What has he done to honor that ugly and viscious demigod. He promoted Abortion of babies, he advocated sexual encounters between teenagers, he trashed The Virgin Mary and laughed at the Saints. With this history he entered the thread you questioned. Notice I have not discussed the demigod.

Your Catholic Education did not teach you about this demigod for good reason. They didn’t have enough time to teach you the Catechis in any depth, did they? So we don’t expect much to be taught about Satan’s demonic army. If you are asking if Satan’s “daemons” are the actual evil demigods of Pagans, the answer is not YES, and not NO. I don’t think even Father Caropi would know for sure. He would say not to spend much time studying the little “Daemons” . Why did I spell demon as I did? Because that is the was it was spelled during the 1500s, even by King James I.
jesus-is-lord.com/kinginde.htm He says there are a number of different types of daemons.
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#8

i would say that some ancient dieties if not all were demons. it says so in the bible.

deut 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

1 Cor 10:20 No, I mean that what they sacrifice, (they sacrifice) to demons, 8 not to God, and I do not want you to become participants with demons.

so they worshiped what they didn’t know; they didn’t realize they were worshiping demons. this would explain why the greeks thought the gods liked to mess up peoples lives as demons want us to go to hell.


#9

[quote=oat soda]i would say that some ancient dieties if not all were demons. it says so in the bible. so they worshiped what they didn’t know; they didn’t realize they were worshiping demons. this would explain why the greeks thought the gods liked to mess up peoples lives as demons want us to go to hell.
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St. Augustine in his City of God is also of the point of view that the whole of the Roman pantheon were demons who had deceived men into worshipping them.


#10

[quote=Kevin Walker]I thought demons were more akin to devils? So what’s the diff between a demon and a devil?
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Technical speaking, there is only one devil – Satan. The rest of the fallen angels are refered to as demons.

Devils or demons – they are the bad guys,


#11

From a Thomistic position of natural law, those other gods are not demons but rather mythological fabrications which give expression to the universal yearning for the one true God and reflect man’s inherent rational ability to come to certain truths concerning the existence of a higher power through the unaided use of reason.

That said, not all the deities and definitively not all the cults of those deities reflect a moral system which is necesasrily consumate with Christian moral philosophy (or at least the concrete expressions reveal the internal disagreement). Yet at the same time, currently there exists a fierce struggle within Catholicism between various ethical systems ranging from Thomistic Natural Law to Divine Command theory to the Grisez-Finnes method to JPII personalist ethics.

As to Augustine, it is no wonder that he truly is the patron saint of Luther and Calvin. Some people only see evil in this world, I happen to prefer Chesterton: “Most probably we are in Eden still. It is only our eyes that have changed.”

Adam


#12

[quote=puzzleannie]since ancient deities like the Greek or Egyptian gods and godesses did not and do not exist, then they are neither gods nor demons, they are characters in a series of mythical tales. The only “ancient Deity” who does exist is the God of the Jews, the one true God.
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Unsupported assertion. And for me, patently falsified, as I have a personal relationship with two of those allegedly nonexistent Gods. And furthermore, if you apply your line of thinking to its logical conclusion, you’ll end up an atheist. Monotheism is atheism minus one god.

As for the assertion that the Gods are demons, that too is a slippery slope that you monotheists have set yourselves. For if you say any God is a demon, you have no certainty that yours isn’t one as well. And, judging by His character, one can easily make the case that this is so.


#13

[quote=Kevin Walker]I thought demons were more akin to devils? So what’s the diff between a demon and a devil?
[/quote]

Nothing, both are synonymous with a fallen angel.


#14

Well, Heathen, that is the Catholic perspective. Our bible asserts us that there is, and only ever has been, one true God, and that all others MUST be imposters. Since Satan and his angels have the ability to pose as beings of power, it is a natural, logical aassumption that anything that present the appearance of a supernatural power must therefore be a demon (fallen angel) posing as a god. Since it is Satan’s intention to draw eyes away from worshipping the true divine source of the universe, this is a good diverstionary tactic. Sorry you fell for it. There’s still time however. I’ll pray for you.

[quote=Heathen Dawn]Unsupported assertion. And for me, patently falsified, as I have a personal relationship with two of those allegedly nonexistent Gods. And furthermore, if you apply your line of thinking to its logical conclusion, you’ll end up an atheist. Monotheism is atheism minus one god.

As for the assertion that the Gods are demons, that too is a slippery slope that you monotheists have set yourselves. For if you say any God is a demon, you have no certainty that yours isn’t one as well. And, judging by His character, one can easily make the case that this is so.
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#15

[quote=Scott_Lafrance]Well, Heathen, that is the Catholic perspective.
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I know that. The Catholic perspective is mistaken.

Our bible asserts us that there is, and only ever has been, one true God, and that all others MUST be imposters.

I know that too. The Bible isn’t telling the truth.

Sorry you fell for it.

Right back atcha. :cool:


#16

[quote=Heathen Dawn]I know that. The Catholic perspective is mistaken.
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A bold statement, considering where you are posting it.

[quote=Heathen Dawn]I know that too. The Bible isn’t telling the truth.
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Conjecture

[quote=Heathen Dawn]Right back atcha. :cool:
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Hey, hey, hey, if your too cutsey with me, people will start talking, and then there will be rumors and then both of our lives will be tormented by the CA Forums paparazzi.


#17

[quote=Scott_Lafrance]A bold statement,
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Bold but true. Would you like me to tell a comforting lie? My very being Wiccan means, automatically, that I think the Catholic perspective is mistaken. Else I wouldn’t have that signature line, and I’d have a different username too.

considering where you are posting it.

If you can’t take dissent then you shouldn’t have a Non-Catholic Religions forum.

Conjecture

Conjecture is the Biblical view that the ancient Gods are demons. My Gods have been so good to me that I know They aren’t demons. Whereas the Biblical God wasn’t so good to my grandparents’ families in Europe back in World War 2.


#18

[quote=Heathen Dawn]Unsupported assertion. And for me, patently falsified, as I have a personal relationship with two of those allegedly nonexistent Gods. And furthermore, if you apply your line of thinking to its logical conclusion, you’ll end up an atheist. Monotheism is atheism minus one god.

.
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first, welcome back, haven’t heard from you in a while, just realized your name is not Heather, which is how I had been thinking of you, apologize.

not unsupported assertion, infallible teaching of the Catholic Church, supported by Hebrew Scripture, and demonstrated by God’s action in history. If someone, ancient or now, has a “relationship” with a being other than God, that being is a demon, a created spirit subordinate to the Creator, who has nothing but evil intent toward you. We of course are praying for you, which good intent you are of course free to reject.


#19

[quote=Heathen Dawn]Bold but true. Would you like me to tell a comforting lie? My very being Wiccan means, automatically, that I think the Catholic perspective is mistaken. Else I wouldn’t have that signature line, and I’d have a different username too.If you can’t take dissent then you shouldn’t have a Non-Catholic Religions forum.Conjecture is the Biblical view that the ancient Gods are demons. My Gods have been so good to me that I know They aren’t demons. Whereas the Biblical God wasn’t so good to my grandparents’ families in Europe back in World War 2.
[/quote]

My point being that since this is a Catholic forum, my position is the default. To come here and claim that our beliefs are false is not only bold, but rash and since they are simply your opinions, unsubstatiated. So, you claims are merely conjecture until you can proffer somthing more substantial than saying “Wicca is right, Catholicism is wrong, so nya-nya-boo-boo.”


#20

Hi. :wave: Yup, I’m all-male.

infallible teaching of the Catholic Church

I don’t believe the Catholic Church is infallible.

supported by Hebrew Scripture

I don’t believe Hebrew Scripture is inerrant.

If someone, ancient or now, has a “relationship” with a being other than God, that being is a demon, a created spirit subordinate to the Creator, who has nothing but evil intent toward you.

I’ve asked it before and I’ll ask it again:

how do you know your God isn’t a demon? Especially when all the atrocities ordained by Him, or at best silently accepted by Him, are considered?

[quote=“Scott_Lafrance”]My point being that since this is a Catholic forum, my position is the default.
[/quote]

The majority position here, I would say.

To come here and claim that our beliefs are false is not only bold, but rash

To come here and read a blaspheming of my Gods, a calling of my Gods demons, warrants a reaction from me.

and since they are simply your opinions, unsubstatiated.

Polytheism was first, monotheism the newcomer; therefore the monotheist has the burden of proof. I hold to the beliefs of ancient people, unchanged, unchanged since the dawn of mankind, while you are innovators, deserters of the timeless Tradition of humankind. Monotheism bears the same relation to polytheism as does Protestantism to Catholicism.


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