And the noose is getting tighter

The numbers themselves do not establish causality.


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Correct, it’s not required, nor do I think it should be when they were private citizens and not working as our elected official (our employee). Private citizens have the right to their privacy.


But, it’s still only a precedent, not a law. And the courts have no business ordering him to turn over his financial records to anyone. Some of these judges step way out of line. If they can do this to Mr. Trump, they can do it to anybody. He’s no less a citizen of this country than any other citizen. This stuff is scary and dangerous. We are on the straightaway to a dictatorship.


I suggest you dig a little deeper and look at the facts. But I am not certain that facts would help you to see the real picture. After all Trump explicitly said: “don’t look at the facts, don’t believe your eyes and ears, because only I am qualified to tell you the truth. Listen to what I say, everyone else is a ‘deep state’ liar.” The fact that those professionals are all non-partisan non-politicians who took an oath the maintain the republic against all enemies, both foreign and domestic, many of them was placed by Trump.

But the important consideration is Trump’s concept of “loyalty”… loyalty to him, personally and not to the country. This alone should help you to realize the problem. Everything else is “chickenfeed”, of secondary importance.

I have heard Southerners call the Civil War the War Between the States, but since when did anyone call the Confederate States of America a country?

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That is not right. We call it the war of Northern aggression.:stuck_out_tongue:


Aggression against holding human beings as slaves?


I’ve always felt there’s no point re-fighting the Civil War.

The phrase is a moniker that I heard from people in my grand-parents generation. My great-great grandfather fought for the Confederacy and he didn’t own any slaves, as most confederate soldiers did not. Hence the popularity of the “Rich man’s war, poor man’s fight” phrase at the time. Shelby Foote tells the story of a Northern soldier asking a ragged southern prisoner, one who clearly didn’t own land or slaves, why he was fighting. His reply, “Because you’re down here”. I’m not excusing the wording, just contextualizing.


Do we have documentation on this?

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I have heard many similar stories.

At the time, many thought of their state first, the country second. People considered themselves Alabama, or Georgian before considering themselves American.


I’ll quote Shelby Foote again:

Before the war, it was said ‘the United States are’—grammatically it was spoken that way and thought of as a collection of independent states. And after the war it was always ‘the United States is,’ as we say today without being self-conscious at all. And that sums up what the war accomplished. It made us an ‘is.’


The hearings today did not go well for the democrats.

I would say the noose is getting looser.

These hearings are based solely on the venom they have for the President.

They are a sham.


I don’t think that he necessarily has anything to hide. My husband and I certainly have nothing to hide, but we would not discuss our taxes with anyone except someone who has a right to ask (e.g., our financial adviser).

My parents had a complex tax situation due to all the many side jobs my dad did, and the 40 rental units that they owned (remember, these two came up from very poor childhoods!). They NEVER discussed their taxes with anyone, ever, except the lawyer they hired to prepare their taxes. And they had NOTHING to hide.

I think it’s just the way many Americans think when it comes to personal finances and taxes.


Sorry–I’m trying to post a link to a video of Yosemite Sam’s famous quote: “Gotta burn my boots–they touched Yankee soil!”

Google it if you’re interested. All in fun! But it does illustrate your point–there was a time in U.S. history when people considered themselves citizens of their STATE first, and then U.S. citizens.


You attribute a direct quote to Trump.
Can you provide some documentation?

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You still haven’t demonstrated a “Russian collusion” between Trump and Russia. Mueller and the 13 angry Democrat investigators couldn’t either. But the Democrats did an excellent job of diverting investigation away from the collusion between Hillary Clinton and Russia. Have to give them that.


I think we can take away from this that no Republican officeholder will ever be able to keep his finances from being pawed over by his opponents. Democrats won’t, of course. They’ll suddenly find a right of privacy that applies only to them.


It’s an ugly slogan to use in this case, but we should never forget, the history of America.

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