Anglican Use masses in OF parishes?


#1

I just got done watching a video of an Anlican Use Mass at Our Lady of Atonment Parish in San Antonio. For English language Masses why don't we use this??? It was beautiful and reverent! Is it only allowed for Anglican Use parishes or can it be said at any parish? Having been in the Anglo-Catholic church before I became Catholic, I have a special place in my heart, and sometimes longing, for the reverent Anglican services (oh how I wish we did Evensong:D


#2

[quote="NorthTexan88, post:1, topic:286889"]
I just got done watching a video of an Anlican Use Mass at Our Lady of Atonment Parish in San Antonio. For English language Masses why don't we use this??? It was beautiful and reverent! Is it only allowed for Anglican Use parishes or can it be said at any parish? Having been in the Anglo-Catholic church before I became Catholic, I have a special place in my heart, and sometimes longing, for the reverent Anglican services (oh how I wish we did Evensong:D

[/quote]

There's no such thing as an 'OF parish,' by the way.

Here's a link to the Church: atonementonline.com/index.php


#3

[quote="Stylites, post:2, topic:286889"]
There's no such thing as an 'OF parish,' by the way.

Here's a link to the Church: atonementonline.com/index.php

[/quote]

By OF I mean the majority of parishes that use the OF :DBut that didn't really answer my question.


#4

[quote="NorthTexan88, post:3, topic:286889"]

But that didn't really answer my question.

[/quote]

I would imagine that a Catholic can licitly attend any other rite which is under the authority of Rome, such as the Anglican Use Rite. Ask your priest or diocese if unsure.


#5

[quote="NorthTexan88, post:1, topic:286889"]
I just got done watching a video of an Anlican Use Mass at Our Lady of Atonment Parish in San Antonio. For English language Masses why don't we use this??? It was beautiful and reverent! Is it only allowed for Anglican Use parishes or can it be said at any parish? Having been in the Anglo-Catholic church before I became Catholic, I have a special place in my heart, and sometimes longing, for the reverent Anglican services (oh how I wish we did Evensong:D

[/quote]

The Anglican-use Mass is limited to those parishes (or defined groups using a parish church) who are Anglican-use Latin Rite Catholics.

Why don't we use it? Because this Mass is no better or worse than the already widely disseminated OF Mass. [edited]


#6

[quote="NorthTexan88, post:1, topic:286889"]
I just got done watching a video of an Anlican Use Mass at Our Lady of Atonment Parish in San Antonio. For English language Masses why don't we use this??? It was beautiful and reverent! Is it only allowed for Anglican Use parishes or can it be said at any parish? Having been in the Anglo-Catholic church before I became Catholic, I have a special place in my heart, and sometimes longing, for the reverent Anglican services (oh how I wish we did Evensong:D

[/quote]

My understanding is that any Catholic can attend, but use of the rite is restricted to the Ordinariate parishes. This is a real shame as it is beautiful rite, and its execution is also far more reverant than the OF.


#7

[quote="Laetus, post:5, topic:286889"]
The Anglican-use Mass is limited to those parishes (or defined groups using a parish church) who are Anglican-use Latin Rite Catholics.

Why don't we use it? Because this Mass is no better or worse than the already widely disseminated OF Mass. Keep in mind the author of this Mass, Thomas Cranmer was burned at the stake by the Catholic Church for his efforts as a heretic...

[/quote]

The Catholic Church didn't burn him at the stake. Not sure why anyone needs to keep this gratuitous swipe in mind.


#8

[quote="Laetus, post:5, topic:286889"]
cause this Mass is no better or worse than the already widely disseminated OF Mass. Keep in mind the author of this Mass, Thomas Cranmer was burned at the stake by the Catholic Church for his efforts as a heretic...

[/quote]

[edited] the Book of Divine Worship. [edited]t translated parts of the Latin Mass into English - beautiful liturgical English far superior to the awkward current translations, in my opinion. The BCP Eucharistic prayer is a new composition, yes, but the BDW doesn't use it - it uses the old Roman Canon.

Also, the BDW is based not on the classical English BCP, but the 1979 American version of it. So it has a lot of new stuff with no connection to Cranmer whatsoever.


#9

[quote="liturgyluver, post:6, topic:286889"]
My understanding is that any Catholic can attend, but use of the rite is restricted to the Ordinariate parishes. This is a real shame as it is beautiful rite, and its execution is also far more reverant than the OF.

[/quote]

That's just your opinion and it's simply not true.


#10

[quote="Bran_Stark, post:8, topic:286889"]
[edited] the Book of Divine Worship. [edited]t translated parts of the Latin Mass into English - beautiful liturgical English far superior to the awkward current translations, in my opinion. The BCP Eucharistic prayer is a new composition, yes, but the BDW doesn't use it - it uses the old Roman Canon.

Also, the BDW is based not on the classical English BCP, but the 1979 American version of it. So it has a lot of new stuff with no connection to Cranmer whatsoever.

[/quote]

It all began with Cranmer. I don't see the current missale as being an "awkward current translation."


#11

[quote="liturgyluver, post:6, topic:286889"]
My understanding is that any Catholic can attend, but use of the rite is restricted to the Ordinariate parishes. This is a real shame as it is beautiful rite, and its execution is also far more reverant than the OF.

[/quote]

Nonsense. It is far more reverent than a sloppily observed OF Mass. Being an OF Mass is not what makes a Mass irreverent. Indiscipline is what makes a Mass irreverent. There are plenty of reverent OF Masses with Gregorian chant, etc. in communities that do care about the Mass.

Please let's avoid gross generalizations and instead put the blame exactly where it belongs: indiscipline.


#12

Of course it is my opinion, and I am entitled to it as you are to yours, but please don’t tell me that what I am saying is not true simply because you disagree with me.

You obviously have a problem with the Anglican Use Rite - one that the The Pope, the Church, the Congregation for Divine Worship and our Bishops seem not to share, as it is now an authorised rite within the Catholic Church. So snipe all you like but I don’t think you are in very good company frankly!


#13

[quote="OraLabora, post:11, topic:286889"]
Nonsense. It is far more reverent than a sloppily observed OF Mass. Being an OF Mass is not what makes a Mass irreverent. Indiscipline is what makes a Mass irreverent. There are plenty of reverent OF Masses with Gregorian chant, etc. in communities that do care about the Mass.

Please let's avoid gross generalizations and instead put the blame exactly where it belongs: indiscipline.

[/quote]

Thanks, I think you have articulated what I meant to express: sadly my experience of sloppily observed OF masses and indiscipline has been far too common.


#14

[quote="OraLabora, post:11, topic:286889"]
Nonsense. It is far more reverent than a sloppily observed OF Mass. Being an OF Mass is not what makes a Mass irreverent. Indiscipline is what makes a Mass irreverent. There are plenty of reverent OF Masses with Gregorian chant, etc. in communities that do care about the Mass.

Please let's avoid gross generalizations and instead put the blame exactly where it belongs: indiscipline.

[/quote]

Amen! :thumbsup:


#15

Just a note: The ante-communion in the Book of Divine Worship is straight out of Rite 1 of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer of the Episcopal Church. The Canon (or Prayer of Consecration) is the old English (not really old English but the thy and thou version) of the Roman Canon. And to tell you the truth, if you like that, you would be enthralled by the 1928 Book of Common Prayer. Sadly the Episcopal Church elected to modernize even some of the traditional language prayers in the 1979 BCP and even more sadly, the Roman Church chose to keep these modernized versions instead of reverting to the beautiful language of Thomas Cranmer of blessed memory.

We in the Episcopal Church are pleased that you are making good use of our excellent liturgies. You are also welcome to see them in their real form any Sunday at your local Episcopal Church (which welcomes you).

[quote="liturgyluver, post:6, topic:286889"]
My understanding is that any Catholic can attend, but use of the rite is restricted to the Ordinariate parishes. This is a real shame as it is beautiful rite, and its execution is also far more reverant than the OF.

[/quote]


#16

If you read the prayerbooks of Cranmer, you would probably not say that.

The new Catholic mass text is a marked improvement over the previous one. And, if you look at the Nicene Creed, you would be pleased to see how close it gets to the sublimity of Cranmer's translation. Just not close enough. I'm sorry. The ICEL is a committee. Cranmer was a genius.

[quote="Laetus, post:10, topic:286889"]
It all began with Cranmer. I don't see the current missale as being an "awkward current translation."

[/quote]


#17

[quote="Usbek_de_Perse, post:15, topic:286889"]
Just a note: The ante-communion in the Book of Divine Worship is straight out of Rite 1 of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer of the Episcopal Church. The Canon (or Prayer of Consecration) is the old English (not really old English but the thy and thou version) of the Roman Canon. And to tell you the truth, if you like that, you would be enthralled by the 1928 Book of Common Prayer. Sadly the Episcopal Church elected to modernize even some of the traditional language prayers in the 1979 BCP and even more sadly, the Roman Church chose to keep these modernized versions instead of reverting to the beautiful language of Thomas Cranmer of blessed memory.

We in the Episcopal Church are pleased that you are making good use of our excellent liturgies. You are also welcome to see them in their real form any Sunday at your local Episcopal Church (which welcomes you).

[/quote]

Thank you - I am fairly familiar with most of the Church of England Liturgies, less so with the TEC ones. I sometimes do attend for Eucharist services with Baptism for friends (though of course I don't receive) and Ecumencial events and have always impressed by the precision with which the liturgy is executed, and the wonderful music and hearty singing.

As the OP mentioned Evensong is a great service which is still sung fully chorally daily in the Cathedrals, and has been maintained on Sunday evenings in many parishes in England. I take great comfort from the fact that Pope Benedict appreciates the beauty of Evensong and has described it as a gift to be shared. He also likes the wording of the "Prayer of Humble Access" which is a truly beautiful prayer.


#18

[quote="liturgyluver, post:17, topic:286889"]
Thank you - I am fairly familiar with most of the Church of England Liturgies, less so with the TEC ones. I sometimes do attend for Eucharist services with Baptism for friends (though of course I don't receive) and Ecumencial events and have always impressed by the precision with which the liturgy is executed, and the wonderful music and hearty singing.

As the OP mentioned Evensong is a great service which is still sung fully chorally daily in the Cathedrals, and has been maintained on Sunday evenings in many parishes in England. I take great comfort from the fact that Pope Benedict appreciates the beauty of Evensong and has described it as a gift to be shared. He also likes the wording of the "Prayer of Humble Access" which is a truly beautiful prayer.

[/quote]

So would it be possible to do Evensong frm the BDW in any Catholic parish if the priest would do it?


#19

I am pleased to hear that Benedict XVI likes the Prayer of Humble access. It is one of two prayers that were regrettably shortened in the 1979 prayer book.

Here it is as printed in the 1979 BCP and the Book of Divine Worship:

1979 We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful
Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord
whose property is always to have mercy. Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.

Here it is as printed in the 1928 BCP (and probably every Book of Common Prayer in English prior to that book, certainly to include 1549). You will note that the beautiful phrase "that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his Body, and our souls washed through his most precious Blood" has been excised in the 1979 book and the Book of Divine Worship.

**
1928** WE do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his Body, and our souls washed through his most precious Blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.

[quote="liturgyluver, post:17, topic:286889"]
Thank you - I am fairly familiar with most of the Church of England Liturgies, less so with the TEC ones. I sometimes do attend for Eucharist services with Baptism for friends (though of course I don't receive) and Ecumencial events and have always impressed by the precision with which the liturgy is executed, and the wonderful music and hearty singing.

As the OP mentioned Evensong is a great service which is still sung fully chorally daily in the Cathedrals, and has been maintained on Sunday evenings in many parishes in England. I take great comfort from the fact that Pope Benedict appreciates the beauty of Evensong and has described it as a gift to be shared. He also likes the wording of the "Prayer of Humble Access" which is a truly beautiful prayer.

[/quote]


#20

I’m guessing the other prayer you were thinking of is the General Confession in the Daily Office, which censored out the phrases “there is no health in us” and “miserable offenders”.


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