ANGLICANS & LAMBETH CONFERENCE


#1

According to this report - there still may be a “realignment” of some kind among the Anglicans:

The Anglican leader advises conservatives in Curry’s diocese to network among themselves and “prayerfully prepare” for the October Lambeth Commission report, which will address the rift in Anglicanism over homosexuality. He says Anglican conservatives need to be ready to move into a realigned future, the exact shape of which may not be clear until the Lambeth report is released.

headlines.agapepress.org/archive/7/212004b.asp


#2

I still am a bit shell-shocked that the Anglican Church defied the Bible and elected an openly gay bishop to head their diocese in New Hampshire. Are they desperate for the liberal Anglicans to hang on to their faith or something?


#3

Here are a few different voices on the matter. Odds seem good that some sort of reorganization will occur. The question is, how big will it be?


#4

[quote=mean_owen]Here are a few different voices on the matter. Odds seem good that some sort of reorganization will occur. The question is, how big will it be?
[/quote]

That probably would have made a bit more sense if I had added the URLs. Sorry.:o

anglicancommunion.org/acns/articles/38/50/acns3850.cfm

anglicancommunion.org/acns/articles/38/00/acns3844.cfm

americananglican.org/News/News.cfm?ID=1088&c=21

americananglican.org/News/News.cfm?ID=1089&c=21


#5

[quote=HagiaSophia]According to this report - there still may be a “realignment” of some kind among the Anglicans:
[/quote]

Up until a year ago, I was worshipping with the Anglicans here in New Westminster (Vancouver) BC Canada. I have many friends caught up in their distressing situation, and here, locally, it is clear that the “realignment” is underway, rather than just a “may be.”

The Anglican Bishop blesses same sex “unions”, and denies the uniqueness of Jesus Christ. There are parishes that come under him. There is another group of parishes that have taken exception to his theology, and are looking for “episcopal oversight” elsewhere. There is yet another group which has left the Anglican Church of Canada altogether, but claim membership in the Anglican Communion through oversight by a bishop under the jurisdiction of the Anglican Primate of Rwanda. Thus, among Anglicans, there is open schism.

The Lambeth Conference has spoken on the issue of gay “marriage,” but has no authority. Anglicanism denies the existance of magisterium – teaching authority – and essentially leaves each national church to go its own way, in effect. In the US and Canada they have, and the majority of Anglicans worldwide object. But they have no correction mechanism at their disposal. The split is widening, and is well on the way to becoming permanent.

The Catholic Church has had to decrease the level of interaction with the Anglican Communion. On the one hand, Lambeth says something; on the other hand, national churches ignore it. Even the document “The Gift of Authority”, produced by the Anglican Roman Catholic Interfaith Commission, was recently rejected by the synod of the Church of England itself.

At the moment, the terms “Anglican” and “Christian” cannot be taken to be synonymous. That being said, there are many Christian Anglicans in North America who are being badly beaten up by those locally in power in their denomination.

The question seems to be only into how many pieces will the Anglican Communion break.

It would be good for Catholics and Christians everywhere to pray that the Anglican Christians will be strengthened to hold on to the faith and the truth they possess.

Blessings,

Gerry Hunter


#6

[quote=luckyirishguy14]I still am a bit shell-shocked that the Anglican Church defied the Bible and elected an openly gay bishop to head their diocese in New Hampshire. Are they desperate for the liberal Anglicans to hang on to their faith or something?
[/quote]

St.Paul, if he returned, might be surprised to see how few bishops are married. And perhaps a church which has been through events like those of 2002 is not the most convincing critic of Bishop Robinson’s election and consecration…

As for “liberal” Anglicans - compassion was a very important Christian quality, last time I looked; like patience and forebearance. It’s a sign of a refusal to panic, or can be ##


#7

[quote=Gottle of Geer]## St.Paul, if he returned, might be surprised to see how few bishops are married. And perhaps a church which has been through events like those of 2002 is not the most convincing critic of Bishop Robinson’s election and consecration…

As for “liberal” Anglicans - compassion was a very important Christian quality, last time I looked; like patience and forebearance. It’s a sign of a refusal to panic, or can be ##
[/quote]

One wonders how the Apostle would feel about how many Anglican bishops are married, divorced, and re-married. Sadly, it has gotten that bed.

Not to quibble, but patience and forbearance are acts of virtue, while compassion is a feeling. Part of the difficulties Christian Anglicans face in their denomination is that the feelings have superceded the virtues.

The real difficulty the Christian Anglicans face is that the liberals – better, revisionists – in power are seeking to redefine Christian beliefs to eliminate the sinfulness of what has been revealed to be sinful. And it doesn’t stop there. One of the most strident voices for gay “unions” in Canada, a United Religions Initiative supporter, has stated in the press that the next big battle will be to change Jesus Christ from THE way to A way, THE truth to A truth, and THE life to A life, among many around the religious world.

If you have any spare prayers that need a home, directing them to our separated Anglican brethren would not be a waste of effort.

Blessings,

Gerry


#8

On a lighter note -

Play chess with Anglicans. You’re sure to win; they don’t know their Bishops from their Queens.:smiley:


#9

[quote=Gerry Hunter]One of the most strident voices for gay “unions” in Canada, a United Religions Initiative supporter, has stated in the press that the next big battle will be to change Jesus Christ from THE way to A way, THE truth to A truth, and THE life to A life, among many around the religious world.
[/quote]

This group is one to keep your eye on, they seem to work very strongly with political types at an international level and appear to be trying to create a “parallel magesterium” to what is now mainstream Christianity in order to facilitate a politically correct belief system. I don’t know if you are familiar with Lee Penn but he has written several very interesting columns about them.


#10

[quote=HagiaSophia]This group is one to keep your eye on, they seem to work very strongly with political types at an international level and appear to be trying to create a “parallel magesterium” to what is now mainstream Christianity in order to facilitate a politically correct belief system. I don’t know if you are familiar with Lee Penn but he has written several very interesting columns about them.
[/quote]

Yes, indeed, Lee Penn is a valuable source of insight into that group. A US Episcopal Bishop named Swing (from California, where else :smiley: ?) started it, tried to get the Catholic Church to play, and got a flat “No” from Rome.

In many ways, the URI and Anglican Lambeth Conference function in much the same way. Neither has any real authority, except to say who can and who cannot come to the meetings. And in the meetings, all propositions have to be entertained and considered, on the basis that it is the opinion of one attendee.

In North America (except for the Anglican Christians who are struggling to hold on to the truth that they have) the Anglican Communion denominations have succumed to the inevitable result of “going with the flow” of the culture. They not only reflect it, but look to it for their norms. That’s what happens when a proposition is considered poertinent simply because someone has brought it up.

The Lambeth Conference can, and has, passed resolutions against revisionist trends in Anglicanism, but they are meaningless and unenforcable, and have dismissed as “advisory” by revisionists. All that could happen is that people stop getting invited to the conference. It can play no effective role in guarding those truths of the faith that Anglicans acknowledge.

How, one wonders, did Anglicanism survive so long this way? I have a theory. True, it had nothing comparable to a magisterium, but it did have the British Crown, when there was an Empire, and it and the monarch were significant forces. A royal “we are not amused” went a long way in keeping things in line. That is no more, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

In the end, they are in the process of proving a former Anglican named G.K. Chesterton right in saying, “When a man stops believing in God, he does not begin to believe in nothing. He begins to believe in anything.”

Blessings,

Gerry


#11

[quote=Gerry Hunter]Yes, indeed, Lee Penn is a valuable source of insight into that group. A US Episcopal Bishop named Swing (from California, where else :smiley: ?) started it, tried to get the Catholic Church to play, and got a flat “No” from Rome.

In many ways, the URI and Anglican Lambeth Conference function in much the same way. Neither has any real authority, except to say who can and who cannot come to the meetings. And in the meetings, all propositions have to be entertained and considered, on the basis that it is the opinion of one attendee.

In North America (except for the Anglican Christians who are struggling to hold on to the truth that they have) the Anglican Communion denominations have succumed to the inevitable result of “going with the flow” of the culture. They not only reflect it, but look to it for their norms. That’s what happens when a proposition is considered poertinent simply because someone has brought it up.

The Lambeth Conference can, and has, passed resolutions against revisionist trends in Anglicanism, but they are meaningless and unenforcable, and have dismissed as “advisory” by revisionists. All that could happen is that people stop getting invited to the conference. It can play no effective role in guarding those truths of the faith that Anglicans acknowledge.

How, one wonders, did Anglicanism survive so long this way? I have a theory. True, it had nothing comparable to a magisterium, but it did have the British Crown, when there was an Empire, and it and the monarch were significant forces. A royal “we are not amused” went a long way in keeping things in line. That is no more, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

In the end, they are in the process of proving a former Anglican named G.K. Chesterton right in saying, “When a man stops believing in God, he does not begin to believe in nothing. He begins to believe in anything.”

Blessings,

Gerry
[/quote]

Greetings, Gerry,

I’m an Anglican who agrees with much of what you have posted here, and I’ve said much the same myself, on occasion. I belong to one of the Continuing Anglican Churches that split off from ECUSA, over just such doctrinal enormities as females in collars, liturgical silliness, and sexual innovations. But as a long time Chesterton collector, I have to comment on one thing from your post. That quote of Chesterton’s you cite is perhaps the best known quote attributed to him. But it is sort of the Holy Grail of Chesterton quotes for us collectors. No one knows its origin. It certainly sounds like him, and is routinely listed among his wise and witty sayings. But whether he said it, and if so, was it written down, and if so, where, remain among the mysteries of life.

Again, not disagreeing with you, or the essence of the quote, just riding my hobby horse.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus


#12

[quote=Gerry Hunter]The question seems to be only into how many pieces will the Anglican Communion break.

It would be good for Catholics and Christians everywhere to pray that the Anglican Christians will be strengthened to hold on to the faith and the truth they possess.
[/quote]

One of my favorite websites carried this article about an Australian group - and I expect we will see more of the same. I am not familiar with them - but it sounded promising, However not being an Anglican myself, perhaps someone here knows more about them:

“We seek an ecclesial structure
in which our children and grandchildren
can grow in faith;
which will continue the orders of bishop, and priest
as the Church has received them;
and which can guarantee a true sacramental life”.

During those years, Forward in Faith has been growing stronger, even as “official” Anglicanism in this country (and Diocese) continues - as we see it - to develop away from the Gospel and the Faith once Delivered to the Saints.

In the Church of England, official provision was made for “Provincial Episcopal Visitors” or “Flying Bishops” as a short-term way of providing for the consciences of people like us in the aftermath of the purported ordination of women to the priesthood. As the Church of England moves inexorably to women bishops, Forward in Faith UK is planning a new Anglican Province in England - a development that even the Archbishop of Canterbury admits will probably be necessary.

forwardinfaith.com/artman/publish/04-07-16-aus-future.shtml


#13

I too am a former Episcopalian. That church is just full of people who feel union with Rome is a good thing. They would do any thing to accomplish this except DO IT! I decided to do it on my own.


#14

Coming from a pretty conservative background of cradle Catholic - turned Episcopalian - now turned Anglican over the Robinson ordination. I offer the following “ramblings” (as I am a baby Anglican but read a lot) and ask others to enlighten me regarding these issues.

Since the Episcopalians have no magisterium/ authority figure, no one was bound by sanction or collegiality to toe the line. Seems like the controlling factor in the past was the House of Bishops riding herd over the laity. With time, many “liberal” ideas were ingrained in the clergy of the 70’s in “progressive seminaries” and this situation seems to have changed with the bishops turning progressive.

An agenda of social justice (not necessarily a bad thing) has taken the fore. Enjoying an atmosphere of extreme tolerance and little hard dogma (again not a bad thing - they tolerate me!), many dissenting ideas were proposed and heard. Many bishops thought themselves “prophetic” by taking up causes that even their own diocese opposed. And now - here we are!!

I don’t think that the situation in the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is too much different except that the “prophets” are not so outspoken. I imagine that the Pope thinks the American bishops nearly as unruly (liberal) as the American Episcopalians. Hence the tightening up of liturgy, and other abuses. I have heard proposed a return to meatless Fridays which is still a requirement outside of America.

Conservative Anglicans are looking to the southern hemisphere for new leadership and it appears similarly, that most new RC priests are coming from the mission grounds.

Again just my thoughts - Comments?


#15

[quote=HagiaSophia]One of my favorite websites carried this article about an Australian group - and I expect we will see more of the same. I am not familiar with them - but it sounded promising, However not being an Anglican myself, perhaps someone here knows more about them:

“We seek an ecclesial structure
in which our children and grandchildren
can grow in faith;
which will continue the orders of bishop, and priest
as the Church has received them;
and which can guarantee a true sacramental life”.

During those years, Forward in Faith has been growing stronger, even as “official” Anglicanism in this country (and Diocese) continues - as we see it - to develop away from the Gospel and the Faith once Delivered to the Saints.

In the Church of England, official provision was made for “Provincial Episcopal Visitors” or “Flying Bishops” as a short-term way of providing for the consciences of people like us in the aftermath of the purported ordination of women to the priesthood. As the Church of England moves inexorably to women bishops, Forward in Faith UK is planning a new Anglican Province in England - a development that even the Archbishop of Canterbury admits will probably be necessary.

forwardinfaith.com/artman/publish/04-07-16-aus-future.shtml
[/quote]

Greetings, HagiaSophia,

If the group you are referring to is Forward in Faith, this is actually 3 slightly different groups of Anglican parishes and dioceses, based in the United Kingdom, North America and Australia, dedicated to preserving orthodox (more or less) Anglicanism. Forward in Faith-United Kingdom is probably a little more agressively traditionalist than Forward in Faith-North America, which is still a little wishy-washy about females in collars. Hence my US diocese is affliated with FiF-UK, not FiF-NA.

Some members of the FiF groups are still in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury; that is, are stilll parts of the official worldwide Anglican Communion. Other parts have broken communion with Canterbury, and with the Episcopal Church, USA, it’s offical representative in the US. Many of these are organised as a variety of traditionalist, or Continuig Anglican Churches. I am a member of such a church.

Forward in Faith-Australia is organised for similar reasons; opposition to female “Ordination”, sexual and liturgical issues.

The struggle going on to preserve some sort of traditional doctrine and orthodox Anglicanism, amidst the rampant apostasy of official Anglicanism, mainly as it is found today in the English-speaking world, is extremely complicated. Forward in Faith in these 3 countries is only part of the effort. If I can address any other questions, I’ll try.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus


#16

[quote=Gerry Hunter] A US Episcopal Bishop named Swing (from California, where else :smiley: ?) .
[/quote]

Swing???
:banghead: :bigyikes:


#17

Anyone who would like to read a selection of quotations from Bishop Swing should see:

Quotes from Bishop Swing

They are illuminating :confused:

Many years,

Neil


#18

[quote=HagiaSophia]Swing???
:banghead: :bigyikes:
[/quote]

Yup. That’s his name. He started the United Religions Initiative, which is more syncretistic than any gnostic ever thought of being. He is a “hero” of the Canadian Anglican bishop in Vancouver, Canada, who approved blessing same sex “unions” and started a URI chapter in his diocese. :hmmm:

Of more interest for us Catholics, when the Dominicans expelled, and the Curia then cut loose Matthew Fox, the “magical mystical bear” who, among other things, denied original sin and replaced it with “original blessing,” it was Episcopal bishop Swing who received him into the Episcopal church as an Anglican priest. :rolleyes:

Fox now operates his centre for “creation spirituality,” which includes as a member a witch named Starhawk, under the patronage of bishop Swing.

When the Lambeth Conference last convened, Swing, of course, was invited and attended. One wonders what an invitation to that gathering signifies. :confused:
Blessings,

Gerry


#19

[quote=Gerry Hunter]Yup. That’s his name. He started the United Religions Initiative, which is more syncretistic than any gnostic ever thought of being. He is a “hero” of the Canadian Anglican bishop in Vancouver, Canada, who approved blessing same sex “unions” and started a URI chapter in his diocese. :hmmm:
[/quote]

The only honest assessment of anything that Swing ever said was sometime last year when he had completed his European tour and said for all intents and purposes, Christianity is dead there. Since even a stopped clock is correct twice a day, I’ll give him that one, but as for the rest - :whacky:

[quote=Gerry Hunter]Of more interest for us Catholics, when the Dominicans expelled, and the Curia then cut loose Matthew Fox, the “magical mystical bear” who, among other things, denied original sin and replaced it with “original blessing,” it was Episcopal bishop Swing who received him into the Episcopal church as an Anglican priest. :rolleyes:
[/quote]

There’s a real piece of work - he and Sr. Star Hawk are still travelling around together I take it - these two prove Mencken right when he said that you can never go too wrong in underestimatingi the intelligence of people.

[quote=Gerry Hunter]When the Lambeth Conference last convened, Swing, of course, was invited and attended. One wonders what an invitation to that gathering signifies. :confused:

[/quote]

I have a writer friend who does articles on these “types” and some of the stuff she digs up, you don’t know whether to laugh or cry.


#20

[quote=Irish Melkite]Anyone who would like to read a selection of quotations from Bishop Swing should see:

Quotes from Bishop Swing

They are illuminating :confused:
[/quote]

One of my favorites: "The quickest recognition for the creation of a United Religions came from ambassadors and diplomats. Also politicians, economists, scientists (especially ecologists) were most supportive. (Swing)

Please take a look at the world around us, do we really want to continue to trust our future to this bunch???:eek:


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