@Peebo this is the best post of the entire thread. I have a basset hound. So even though she doesn’t have an immortal soul, this PROVES she’ll be in heaven! I mean, if ya got wings or ears, ya just gotta be there! Great post.
What exactly does that mean? What if we can see God in all that He has created, once we’re there? Do you think we’ll be looking at an old guy in white robes?
The immediate knowledge of God which the angelic spirits and the souls of the just enjoy in Heaven. It is called “vision” to distinguish it from the mediate knowledge of God which the human mind may attain in the present life. And since in beholding God face to face the created intelligence finds perfect happiness, the vision is termed “beatific”. For further explanation of the subject, see HEAVEN.
None of that goes against what I said. Reinforces it, in fact.
I was just going to post this exact same thought, but you beat me to it! Thanks!
Sorry, but I don’t know what this means. I don’t think we’re going to spend all of eternity staring at God. Even the angels don’t do this. Our guardian angels are at our side and the warring angels such as St. Michael are fighting demons and fallen angels. We will probably all have things we will be doing. God’s presence will pervade all things, so He will always be present with us and with all His creation.
Heaven is supposed to be a beautiful place which God has prepared for those who love him. We will be interacting with other saints and will enjoy the beauty of heaven. Saints who have seen visions of heaven have described its beauty…but we won’t look away from God to see it?
The promise is that God is so amazing one would not want to look away.
What ‘promise’ are you referring to? I don’t recall this verse in scripture.
But I understand the sentiment…I really do…
But I don’t think that will be the reality of Heaven…that we just stand around and look at God.
The plant soul and animal soul each require co-operation from the body. Whereas only the rational soul, possessed only by humans in the sensible world, is both immaterial and immortal.
No one here has claimed that Heaven will consist of us standing round staring at God. But neither will it consist of us fulfilling all the personal desires and wishes we had in this earthly life: we will then see them for the weak, paltry, sorry things they were, and will wonder how they could ever have obsessed us so. I think the point others are making is that the Beatific Vision will be the fulfilling of all our heart’s longings, to the point that, much as we may have loved our pets, our friends, even our families, nothing will be as compelling to us as being in His presence. We, the saints in Heaven, will not be paying attention to one another, in little groups and cliques. We will all be turned toward Him in adoration and love. C.S. Lewis has written that for most of us, Heaven will be something of an acquired taste. No doubt this is true, but I have a feeling it is a taste we will acquire instantaneously once we are there.
I understand and agree with all those things. Just as Jesus said there won’t be marriage in Heaven, etc. I don’t think we’ll ‘need’ anything in heaven except for God.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean, at least from what I’ve experienced and others have experienced, that other creatures created by God and independent of us, won’t in some way, that God hasn’t revealed to us, also enjoy some sort of life that he has created them for in eternity.
God has only revealed to us mankind’s purpose. We can only guess and theorize the outcome for his other creatures. It is not within our realm to know for certain…we cannot analyze the ‘souls’ of God’s creatures…we are only created beings ourselves…we are not the Creator, that we should have a full and complete knowledge of God’s creation.
I don’t think we have all the answers. And as @Boomerang Too mentioned in an earlier post quoting Ecclesiastics, no one knows the answer to this (Ecclesiastics 3:21)
(P.S. I personally don’t believe Heaven will be an acquired taste. That is our home…where we were meant to be…I don’t think we’ll have to get used to it…We will be more at home there than we ever felt here in this world. I agree with you…it will instantaneously be our home)
This is an interesting discussion and hopefully not so an emotional one as to impede some in-depth discussion. Firstly, I would offer the admission that I am not able explain to a satisfying degree exactly what a soul is. I would suggest that aside from the endless references to the soul made in literature, scripture and throughout human discourse over time, it’s a hard thing to actually describe. For the most part, I have seen it applied in the Cartesian view, wherein it’s some sort of occupant of a living host, separate from its body, rather than our bodies simply being an outward expression of whatever the Soul is. I have used upper case for the word Soul in this case, allowing for the possibility that there is some sort of larger soul of which we all may be individualized permutations of, be it God or something else. That approach would certainly mesh well with the “I am the vine and you are the branches” quote from scripture. A vine is not something other than its branches. Apparently, they are one thing expressed in many ways. But all that is something of a digression, but maybe not such a bad segue.
I will rely firstly on my own personal experience, and I am happy to share that I have seen all of what I consider to be the most valuable attributes possessed by humans in most other sorts of animals. The capacity to love, to grieve, to express happiness, fear and to show immense affection. I have seen no human provide the world I occupy with anything greater than these. The primary difference I can see in humans is our ability to apply a lot of cognitive overhead that other animals don’t have, although that’s a left-brained attribute that we have developed, while other species have finely tuned right-brained functions to a level that far surpasses ours, which includes things such as the more intuitive attributes of all living things. The right-brained attributes of other animals have been studied closely in peer reviewed and published studies, and animals have shown a proclivity for certain right brained mental capabilities that far surpass normal human experience.
Without offering any argument on evolution v. creationism, or even considering arguments on intelligent design, it would be hard for me to imagine that if the latter were to be the case, that an omniscient being would create thousands of species for the sake of simply expanding the menu for one species. If all living things were in fact made by an intelligent creator, and I am not arguing that one way or the other, then I would imagine that all of them are expressions of their source, and it follows that they would all be endowed with an unending connection to it.
Saying " Animals do have immortal souls" is not 100% true. animals have the same soul like humans have. But one thing about animals is true and that is the sixth sense that animals have.
The Reading from the Book of Wisdom was interesting this past Sunday.
“For God did not make Death, he takes no pleasure in destroying the living. To exist – for this he created all things; the creatures of the world have health in them, in them is no fatal poison, and Hades has no power over the world.”
God did not create death. This verse talks about all creatures. I believe that at some point, God will restore all things.
I have had interactions with a deceased pet, as have others who have testified in this thread and in other similar threads. I also read about a woman who could supposedly see spirits. She said she saw a bird die in midair–its body fell to the earth, but she saw its spirit ascend. I also know someone personally, who when their pet died, saw a golden light go upwards from its body.
We can only draw conclusions from scripture in this matter. God has not specifically told us these things in black and white. We, as mere humans, cannot know all the answers. I think that to say definitely one way or the other is just not right.
Animals do NOT have the same souls as humans. That is wrong!
Humans have immortal souls whereas animals have material souls which cease to exist when an animal dies.
356 Of all visible creatures only man is “able to know and love his creator”.219 He is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake”,220 and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God’s own life. …
1703 Endowed with “a spiritual and immortal” soul,5 the human person is "the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake."6
- sake,1) … in order to achieve or preserve.
Note that the angels are not visible creatures but purely spiritual.
330 As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness.190
Good afternoon Thistle.Can you elaborate on what a material soul is? How does that work? I have simply never heard of that concept and am always interested to hear something new. Thank you.
If you start at the beginning of the thread and read all the posts you will find this question has been answered. If you can’t see the answer you want, revert back to me.
I feel like a shill posting his videos as often as I do, but the man makes sense, so here’s another one… (skip ahead to about a minute, btw before he starts actually talking about it)
Father Mike nailed it here, I think, especially from 6:10 to the end of the video, where he says ‘If I need my pet in order to be happy in Heaven, then I’m not ready for Heaven’. He goes on to remind us that one of the purposes of Purgatory is to purify our love, so that we will, as he puts it, ‘want God more than we want anything else’. Only when we love God more than any created thing will we be ready for union with Him. Our pets may indeed be in Heaven, but we won’t need them to be there in order to be perfectly and completely happy. In a sense, the important question is not ‘Will my pets be in Heaven?’ but rather, 'How can I learn to finally love God more than I love anyone or anything else? ’