Animals do have immortal souls


Bad dog! No treat!


Oh my goodness. Happy People. One of my favorite documentaries. I told my sister and brother in law to watch it and they hated it! I couldn’t believe it. Some people just have no taste. :grinning:


I’m going to settle this controversy once and for all. Ecclesiastes 3:

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.
Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

Who knows? No one, that’s who. No one knows. Not even the brilliant Thomas Aquinas. There you go, case closed! :grin:


Can you imagine the utter cruelty of embuing a creature with a rational, immortal soul and entrapping it in a body incapable of higher thought, expression of rationality and language? This may be the greatest evidence that animal souls are quite different than ours.


Maybe a little diversion.


At first I thought you were talking about humans in the 21st century.



So some dogs bite. Some humans murder. You’re missing the point.


Yes, this is very true. And at night, when I am trying to get some sleep, some dogs bark incessantly. This constant barking brings me nightmares as it calls to mind the times when a vicious killer dog bit my leg as I was riding my bicycle. Who is going to pay for the medical care required for the leg wounds and for the replacement of the ripped pants? This incident left me traumatized.


most don’t
in heaven? no, thank you

as per father pacwa; EVERY living thing, down to the tiniest blade of grass has a soul

only human beings have an immortal soul


Were you an adult or a child when this happened? You don’t need to buy new pants. Just repair the ones you have. :roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes:

As for medical care, you, your parents or your insurance will pay for that. If you are that traumatized, you need to engage the aid of a psychologist or a psychiatrist to get to the root of your problem. Your medical insurance will cover that as well.

People get bitten by dogs every day. Unfortunately, it’s so easy to sue the dog’s owner when the dog is just protecting its territory. Why not take responsibility for your part in the action? Unless the dog has a history of biting people and is truly dangerous, you don’t have a case.


Aquinas is not infallible nor is his speculations on the level of dogma.

We are not obligated to believe in them to be considered Catholics.


At that time I was an adult did not have medical insurance. It was too expensive and I could not afford it. And the pants ripped as they were could not be repaired. Psychiatrists and psychologists cost lots of money which I don’t have. How is it my responsibility when a vicious attack dog comes out of nowhere and bites me in the leg? You say I don’t have a case. Well, I knew that already. These vicious animals can go and bite and even kill people and everyone seems to blame the victim saying it was their responsibility? IMHO, people should be able to ride a bicycle without being attacked by vicious killer dogs coming out of nowhere. These killer dogs need to be shot dead.


Saint Francis of Assissi believed animals have immortal souls and will be in heaven.

The Book of Revelation describes a New Heaven coming down to be placed on a New Earth.

Saint Paul in the bible says : ‘ALL OF CREATION is groaning in the birth pangs until the New Heaven and New Earth.’


And w hat determines a killer dog in your eyes? All dogs, inc the most docile, have the potential, given the right circumstances, to become killer dogs. Would you have all dogs put to death simply because one bit you?


I wouldn’t say it disgusts me, but it’s a fad that’s worn out its welcome.


Vicious dogs that attack and bite should all be shot dead before they kill an innocent child.


Absolutely correct on both points. However:

  1. To your first point: when there is a conflict between Aquinas’ considered, rational, logically reasoned analysis of an issue and my own weak, hyper-emotional, irrational response to the same issue, my money’s on Aquinas every time.

  2. To your second point: no one is saying our Catholic identity depends on belief in the material souls of animals. What our Catholic identity DOES demand, however, is that we render to each his due, and refrain from exalting some to places they do not rightfully occupy. This means not treating animals as our ‘children’ and showing them excessive affection and love which is rightly due to our fellow humans.


My second statement was a further comment on Aquinas. We do not have to treat Aquinas’ views on the level of dogma but on the level of private revelation. No more no less.

I did not say anything about the state of animal souls.

What do I believe. I believe animals have souls but not immortal souls and neither do I believe animals should be treated as humans. They are not humans. Frankly speaking, if we treat them as humans we do them a disservice.


Thank you, Sarcelle, for your clarification. Do forgive the presumption and assumptions on my part.

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