Annulment, a little confused


#1

So I've been looking for a straight answer on annulments. It's a complicated subject, I know, that's why I'm seeking a little clarification from a informed, practicing Catholic person.

The situation:
My sister is involved with a man who is divorced. She has never been married.
He is not a Catholic, and nominally Christian from my understanding. They do not live together. He has a couple kids with his ex. He has been divorced

My question:

Could a deceleration of nullity apply here?


#2

[quote="PeterJohn, post:1, topic:320780"]
Could a deceleration of nullity apply here?

[/quote]

If he is validly married, your sister could not marry him, so it would be well worth finding out! :)


#3

[quote="PeterJohn, post:1, topic:320780"]
So I've been looking for a straight answer on annulments. It's a complicated subject, I know, that's why I'm seeking a little clarification from a informed, practicing Catholic person.

The situation:
My sister is involved with a man who is divorced. She has never been married.
He is not a Catholic, and nominally Christian from my understanding. They do not live together. He has a couple kids with his ex. He has been divorced

My question:

Could a deceleration of nullity apply here?

[/quote]

Maybe or maybe not.

FWIW, there is nothing in what you've posted that is grounds for annulment. Annulments deal with issues at the time of the consent.


#4

[quote="PeterJohn, post:1, topic:320780"]

Could a deceleration of nullity apply here?

[/quote]

I'm not sure exactly what "apply here" means?

If you are asking if the divorced man could look into obtaining a ruling of nullity for his marriage then yes he can. Now whether or not there were any reasons why the marriage might be found invalid, we have no idea and I don't know whether you do either. If so it would have been something that existed at the time of the wedding.


#5

[quote="PeterJohn, post:1, topic:320780"]

Could a deceleration of nullity apply here?

[/quote]

We cannot answer that. You do not receive a decree of nullity just because you want one. You must have grounds that prove you were in an invalid marriage.

Since he was previously married, the best advice you can give is that the two of them make an appointment with her pastor before they begin making any wedding plans. He is not free to marry right now.

Whether or not he can receive a decree of nullity, or if some other process applies, will be determined after he gives all the detail of the situation to the priest. Whether or not he has a case depends on many factors, including both he and his ex-wife's baptismal status, whether or not either of them was baptized at all or baptized Catholic, whether either of them was previously married, and more.


#6

I see. Does anyone know the conditions that apply to rightly warrent annulments?


#7

It should not really be for somebody outside a marriage to seek ways to invalidate the marriage, not because of anything wrong with the marriage but because of a starting point of "I might be interested in breaking this marriage".

Let no man put asunder and all that.


#8

[quote="PeterJohn, post:6, topic:320780"]
I see. Does anyone know the conditions that apply to rightly warrent annulments?

[/quote]

There are a number of them enumerated in canon law.

Again, no one here can answer the question of whether or not he may have grounds for a decree of nullity. He needs to talk to her pastor.


#9

[quote="1ke, post:8, topic:320780"]
There are a number of them enumerated in canon law.

Again, no one here can answer the question of whether or not he may have grounds for a decree of nullity. He needs to talk to her pastor.

[/quote]

Ike, I know a little on the subject but not much. I realized I posted an incomplete question after I returned and re read what I said. Lol
I guess I'm searching for hope for my sister because she's in love and all that. Honestly I fear that she will find herself in a sad situation where she cannot marry in the Church due to a valid first marriage of her BF. I fear, given this situation, she will chose to marry outside the faith. :(

I sought these answers for hope for her, and peace of mind for me. But it will be up to our Bishop in the end. May Gods will be done. Any advice on what to suggest to her in the mean time?


#10

[quote="PeterJohn, post:6, topic:320780"]
I see. Does anyone know the conditions that apply to rightly warrent annulments?

[/quote]

They are spelled out here:

Diriment Impediments:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Y.HTM

Issues Pertaining to Matrimonial Consent:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Z.HTM


#11

In reality she really should not be dating this man. Anything that looks like a marriage is to be treated as one unless proven other wise. In essence unless proven oher wise she is dating a married man.


#12

[quote="DSJJ, post:11, topic:320780"]
In reality she really should not be dating this man. Anything that looks like a marriage is to be treated as one unless proven other wise. In essence unless proven oher wise she is dating a married man.

[/quote]

I know this. I agree with this.

But try telling a modern woman that.


#13

My wife now tells me that my sisters BF is/was Mormon.
Does the Church recognize a Mormon marriage?
If he alone was Mormon, and not his ex wife does this impede a marriage?


#14

[quote="PeterJohn, post:13, topic:320780"]
My wife now tells me that my sisters BF is/was Mormon.
Does the Church recognize a Mormon marriage?
If he alone was Mormon, and not his ex wife does this impede a marriage?

[/quote]

yes, the Church recognizes "Mormon' marriages as valid.
No to the second. It doesn't matter if he was Mormon and his wife was pagan, 'spiritual', Christian, or whatever; if he and she were married legally and in accordance with their faith, then the marriage is assumed valid.

Now if he was Mormon, his first wife was Catholic, and they did NOT marry in the Catholic Church, THEN he has grounds for nullity.
Bottom line, everybody needs to TALK TO A PRIEST, ASAP.


#15

[quote="PeterJohn, post:13, topic:320780"]
My wife now tells me that my sisters BF is/was Mormon.

[/quote]

Ok, I know this is going to frustrate you. But, it does not matter how many items you post here, we CANNOT tell you what you are wanting-- whether or not he can obtain a decree of nullity.

Please, encourage her to go talk to her pastor.

[quote="PeterJohn, post:13, topic:320780"]

Does the Church recognize a Mormon marriage?

[/quote]

Yes. Non-Catholics marry validly when they marry barring any divine law impediments like a prior marriage.

[quote="PeterJohn, post:13, topic:320780"]

If he alone was Mormon, and not his ex wife does this impede a marriage?

[/quote]

No.

Again: they need to go talk to her pastor.

As I already stated, there are many variables including baptismal status, prior marriage(s), and whether or not there were any impediments to valid marriage. If he is unbaptized, that MAY open up some other options related to dissolution of the bond.


#16

[quote="Tantum_ergo, post:14, topic:320780"]
and in accordance with their faith

[/quote]

Actually, this is not relevant. If they married civilly, they married validly. The only exception would be a member of a true paticular Church-- a Catholic or Orthodox for example.


#17

[quote="PeterJohn, post:9, topic:320780"]
Ike, I know a little on the subject but not much. I realized I posted an incomplete question after I returned and re read what I said. Lol
I guess I'm searching for hope for my sister because she's in love and all that. Honestly I fear that she will find herself in a sad situation where she cannot marry in the Church due to a valid first marriage of her BF. I fear, given this situation, she will chose to marry outside the faith. :(

I sought these answers for hope for her, and peace of mind for me. But it will be up to our Bishop in the end. May Gods will be done. Any advice on what to suggest to her in the mean time?

[/quote]

If your sister is contemplating a future with this man, she really needs to decide now if she wants to marry in the Church. If she does, she needs to discuss with her boyfriend the fact that he is validly married until the Church determines otherwise. It really is a matter of her (and him) understanding and accepting the Church's teachings regarding marriage, and wanting to commit to that, which includes raising children Catholic.
All of this should be thought about and discussed before an engagement, IMO, or else, if things don't go in her favor, she will get mad at the Church and marry outside of it. If this man respects her wishes to marry in the Church (if that is what she wants), he will need to learn, accept, and agree to what a sacramental marriage entails, because that is what he will be committing to.


#18

To the people telling me that my sister needs to go see our priest:
I know this, she knows this. I realize that none of you can decree nullity and can only share what you know. She does need to go see the priest but I think she's scared to face the outcome that could be a no from the tribunal. I was simply seeking a tidbit of hope that would encourage her to giddy up and be serious about her faith. I am in 100% agreement with Church teaching and believe she shouldn't have engadged in a relationship with this guy. She should have been educated enough in her faith to know that he is, in fact still married in the eyes of Christ until his marriage is investigated and proven propperly null.

These situations, that are started without knowing the possible ramifications are difficult to deal with when progressed to the point that she is in. then having to face the facts, one is put between "the" rock, and a hard place. It's sad. :( I feel for her and hope and pray she makes the right choice and abandons her life(of sin and worldliness) for eternal life.

So, I'm satisfied with the advice I sought and found here and my fears are confirmed that this is no cut and dried case. Any advice on how to help her deal with this on a personal level? Any tips on how to encourage her to make the right choice here no matter what?


#19

[quote="PeterJohn, post:6, topic:320780"]
Does anyone know the conditions that apply to rightly warrent annulments?

[/quote]

Something has to have invalidated the vows at the time they were made.


#20

[quote="PeterJohn, post:18, topic:320780"]
She does need to go see the priest but I think she's scared to face the outcome that could be a no from the tribunal.

[/quote]

Since none of us can know, she should probably be preparing now for any outcome. :o

[quote="PeterJohn, post:18, topic:320780"]
Any advice on how to help her deal with this on a personal level? Any tips on how to encourage her to make the right choice here no matter what?

[/quote]

I think the most important things you can do are to love her, be with her, listen to her. Basically, be a good brother and friend.

Of course, if she misunderstands the Church's teaching, it would be good to help her better understand what the Church really teaches and why, but don't try to force it on her. People don't tend to respond well to doctrine being forced upon them, especially when they're confused, frustrated, or hurting. ;)


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