Annulment


#1

I mentioned this recently and looking over it my Mother was more correct than I am…

My parents are divorced, my Mom is remarried with one little girl from this new marriage and me and my brother. My dad is in a long time relationship with his girlfriend with no real intention to marry; which is agreed by both of them.

My parents’ marriage had nothing of these

The contract is defective in form if the marriage ceremony is invalid, such as the case of two Catholic persons being married outside of the Catholic Church.
The contract is defective of contract if it was not a marriage that was contracted, such as if there was a defect of intent on either side. This can occur if either party lacked the intent to enter into a lifelong, exclusive union, open to reproduction.
If either party was coerced, they lacked willingness, and therefore lacked intent.
If either party was married to another, they were unable to enter into the contract. Also, certain relationships of blood render the parties unable to enter into contract. Also, parties of the same gender are unable to enter into contract.

Nor were the reasons any of this.

Consanguinity
Insanity precluding ability to consent
Not intending, when marrying, to remain faithful to the spouse (simulation of consent)
One partner had been deceived by the other in order to obtain consent, and if the partner had been aware of the truth, would not have consented to marry
Abduction of a person, with the intent to compel them to marry (known as raptus), constitutes an impediment as long as they remain in the kidnapper’s power.
Failure to adhere to requirements of canon law for marriages, such as clandestinity
the couple killed the spouse of one of them in order to be free to marry.
the couple committed adultery.
The couple were under the influence of alchohol

SO WHAT GOD?! Your saying you’ll never release my parent’s from their marriage and see their healthy new relationships as nothing more than adultery, my 4 year old sister nothing but a bastard to you?! :mad:

god learning this never made me hate God more than I do now…I finally see where people come from saying Hell is a gift-If he intends to be so rigid as to not even allow someone to fix their mistake then to Heaven with God I’ll stick to Hell.


#2

Your sister is not responsible for the actions of her parents.

In the Catholic Church, marriage is a Sacrament, a lifetime covenant promise between a man and a woman and God.


#3

Where is this written? Where are they automatically condemned to hell?


#4

Misotheism is the "hatred of God" or "hatred of the gods" (from the Greek adjective μισόθεος "hating the gods", a compound of μῖσος "hatred" and θεός "god").

God wishes the best for humans.

In wanting that for us, He asked that when a man and a woman marry and have children, that they would understand the responsibility and commit to each other for a lifetime, both for their benefit and for their childrens' needs.

You haven't mentioned why your Mom divorced her first husband. Or if she and he were married in a Church, if they both are Christians, Catholics, etc.


#5

[quote="Flavius_Aetius, post:1, topic:229638"]
I mentioned this recently and looking over it my Mother was more correct than I am...

My parents are divorced, my Mom is remarried with one little girl from this new marriage and me and my brother. My dad is in a long time relationship with his girlfriend with no real intention to marry; which is agreed by both of them.

My parents' marriage had nothing of these

Nor were the reasons any of this.

SO WHAT GOD?! Your saying you'll never release my parent's from their marriage and see their healthy new child relationships as nothing more than adultery, my 4 year old sister nothing but a bastard to you?! :mad:

god learning this never made me hate God more than I do now...I finally see where people come from saying Hell is a gift-If he intends to be so rigid as to not even allow someone to fix their mistake then to Heaven with God I'll stick to Hell.

[/quote]

Oh dear Flavius I feel your pain and I am so sorry you are hurting.I am not familiar with all your details here but have either your mother or father actually formally sought to seek an annulment?
Until an actual formal application is made none of us can speculate as to whether their marriage would be found valid or not.
I think its also good to remember God is love and He loves each and every one of us.Your sister is an innocent child and loved by God as you are.Your parents are loved by God also.Even if their marriage is found to have been valid and they have then remarried or are in a further relationship they would be regarded by the church as commitiing sin but God still loves them.

It is a very upsetting situation for you to be in & I am sorry you have had to suffer such worry.Have you chatted to a priest about this?That would probably be very useful to you and could answer all your concerns.I don't know if anything I have put here has helped you but I sincerely care for you and pray you will feel Gods love for you.

I found this from
www.idotaketwo.com/christian_remarriage.html -

[A Catholic annulment is a declaration from a diocesan Tribunal that the marriage bond was less than such a covenant for life because it was lacking something necessary from the very beginning. One or both parties may have entered the marriage with good will, but lacked the openness, honesty, maturity, fully free choice, right motivation, emotional stability, or capacity to establish a community of life and love with another person. If an annulment is granted, then both parties are free to remarry in the Church, however, for pastoral reasons, counseling may be required prior to marriage in order to prevent the parties involved from repeating mistakes. The legitimacy of the children is NOT affected in any way. There was an assumption of marriage at the time; therefore the standing of children is never affected by an annulment.]

If you are Catholic, or plan to marry in a Catholic church, you likely will need to have your first marriage declared null. Depending on where you were married and whether you and/or your ex-spouse were baptized, the matter might be resolved rather simply, or it might take more examination and work.

As you prepare for your upcoming second wedding, you have probably given a great deal of thought to the sacredness of marriage. It is that sacredness that the Church’s marriage policy strives to protect. But while the Church believes that a valid marriage cannot be dissolved except through death, it also recognizes that what appears to be a valid marriage is not always so.]

May God bless you


#6

[quote="Barbkw, post:2, topic:229638"]
Your sister is not responsible for the actions of her parents.

In the Catholic Church, marriage is a Sacrament, a lifetime covenant promise between a man and a woman and God.

[/quote]

Also, I believe that children from even putative marriages are now recognized by the Church as being legitimate.


#7

You can rest easy about your sister. The word “bastard” is a legal distinction, God makes no such judgements. To God, your sister is simply his precious child.


#8

You seem to only be looking at a small number of impediments - while these are the main headings there are many things that contribute to these that your parents themselves may not even realize. I would recommend your parents speak to a priest open and honestly about what happened in their marriage as obviously there was an issue with permanence or they would not be divorced. That does not mean anything was wrong with either of them it is just a matter of maybe a Tribunal needs to look at the big picture and find out if this reached the level at the time of marriage to indicate a decree of nullity. Besides that the process itself can be healing. Honestly, as an adult child you may not want to ask those kinds of questions to your own parents regardless.

God bless,


#9

[quote="Flavius_Aetius, post:1, topic:229638"]
I mentioned this recently and looking over it my Mother was more correct than I amYour saying you'll never release my parent's from their marriage and see their healthy new relationships as nothing more than adultery, my 4 year old sister nothing but a bastard to you?!

.

[/quote]

I say none of these things.
the church says none of these things
unless and until your parents, one or the other, submits all the facts of their marriage for investigation by the canon law tribunal and after due investigation receive a judgement one way or the other, the Church says nothing. If either party to the first marriage was Catholic at the time and it was conducted under proper church form, it is presumptively valid and yes for either of them to enter into a sexual relationship with a third party is objectively adulterous. Since we are not God we cannot judge the subjective state of their souls.

In any case, the status of you or your sister is not affected either way no matter what they do or don't do, or what the church decides so that is a non-issue.

Catholics believe as the Creed says in the Church, and moreover that the Holy Spirit protects the Church when she governs under the authority of Christ over all the sacraments including marriage. They are free to reject Church authority over this or any other part of their lives, but in so doing they reject Christ himself. A serious matter.

But for a child, he has to understand these things are the parents' business, not his, and not concern himself and especially never in any case to judge either of his parents. The child cannot make any of the statements about his parents' marriage as in OP because he simply does not and cannot know all the facts. If it were that easy to judge there would be no need for any legal process at all.

If you are interested in the topic of the sacrament of marriage and annulment search the relevant discussions in the sacraments forum. But since it is not your marriage andyou are not affected, there is no need to do so.


#10

All that being said - it is good that you care about your parents - it is just not something you really want to end up in the middle of or dwelling on - be happy and encourage them both in spiritual communion.


#11

[quote="Flavius_Aetius, post:1, topic:229638"]

SO WHAT GOD?! Your saying you'll never release my parent's from their marriage and see their healthy new relationships as nothing more than adultery, my 4 year old sister nothing but a bastard to you?! :mad:

god learning this never made me hate God more than I do now...I finally see where people come from saying Hell is a gift-If he intends to be so rigid as to not even allow someone to fix their mistake then to Heaven with God I'll stick to Hell.

[/quote]

Your identified "religion" says a lot. Do you go around looking for reasons to hate God? If you come across reasons to love God or see that He loves you, do you ignore them and go on looking for reasons to hate?

Try doing some reading on Christian humility. Believe me, you don't know better than God, you just think you do.


#12

Where is this written? Where are they automatically condemned to hell?

The part where not getting their first marriage annuled means any other relationship is adultery.

You haven't mentioned why your Mom divorced her first husband. Or if she and he were married in a Church, if they both are Christians, Catholics, etc.

Both are Catholic and were married in a Church. After all this time I still haven't been able to figure out why they got divorced. Even when they divorced there was never anything like the talking about the other to me behind their back, or getting lawyers to steal everything from the other, early on I vaguely remember them arguing but even that ended after a year or so. When I asked the best answer I could get was they weren't compatible as husband and wife but were fine being friends.

have either your mother or father actually formally sought to seek an annulment?

No, even when I mentioned it for their sake neither want to do so. In fact the reasoning when I ask my mom why is mainly because they were married in the Church. As for my dad he remains thiestic and would never change from the Catholic faith but doesn't trust priests or like how buerucratic the Church can be on these issues.

My mom was married by the State with my Step-dad, and he is at best agnostic and at worst anti-catholic. The same could be said about my dad's girlfriend so even the two did get an annulment it would only solve half the problem since my dad does not intend to get married, and my step-dad will NEVER marry in a Catholic Church.

The child cannot make any of the statements about his parents' marriage as in OP because he simply does not and cannot know all the facts. If it were that easy to judge there would be no need for any legal process at all.

Am I at fault for being scared to death that because of this there is less than a decimal percent chance that I'd ever see either of them in Heaven? What is the point of striving to be with God when he damned the people who raised me to be faithful to God; who struggled to get be back into the faith when I outwardly showed a lack of faith in God? This is the thanks they will get for giving me a chance at salvation?

Your identified "religion" says a lot. Do you go around looking for reasons to hate God? If you come across reasons to love God or see that He loves you, do you ignore them and go on looking for reasons to hate?

Try doing some reading on Christian humility. Believe me, you don't know better than God, you just think you do.

I try to find reasons to love God the Father, but when I find one reason to love him I find ten more reasons to hate him. The OT is enough to find how spiteful he can be, and these kind of situations in the Catholic Church's rules leave me to have zero faith that my family will be in Heaven which add to that.

I mean why be humble to God when our lives to him are as important as ants? I've heard here time and again that God is fully allowed to commit Genocide on whoever he deems fit for it because our lives are insignficant and belong solely to him whether we accept God or not.


#13

OK, some points I want to make.

If they did get a decree of nullity than your mom may be able to have radical sanitation done once the impediment of the past marriage is removed - this could be done without your step-dad's knowledge or permission and would allow your mom to be welcomed back to the Eucharistic feast.

As far as your dad - even if the decree of nullity was granted there would still be an issue because regardless he is still seeming to have relations outside of marriage. Now, regardless, if in the end he wants to have confession, Eucharist, and the Annointing he would still be welcome to that just by expresing the desire for that to a priest or by having a family member say his loving son do that for him if he is not able to do that at the time.

God bless,,


#14

[quote="Flavius_Aetius, post:12, topic:229638"]

Am I at fault for being scared to death that because of this there is less than a decimal percent chance that I'd ever see either of them in Heaven? What is the point of striving to be with God when he damned the people who raised me to be faithful to God; who struggled to get be back into the faith when I outwardly showed a lack of faith in God? This is the thanks they will get for giving me a chance at salvation?

[/quote]

You may think this is merely semantics, but God has not condemned your parents to Hell. Their own actions have separated them from the best God has to offer in their lives. They took a vow in front of God and we Catholics believe deeply that those vows mean something forever. That God does not want us to hop from person to person as if we had not united our bodies and souls with our husbands/wives.

God is not damning your parents. He is being left out of their lives, as if His sanctioning of their original union meant nothing. THEY are choosing to do things this way. I know it's hard to put the blame where it belongs, which is on your parents, not on God.

But that is where the responsibility lies, isn't it? Your parents and their new spouses or shack-ups have made their conscious choice to divorce and re-marry (or not) despite the requirements of their faith.


#15

You may think this is merely semantics, but God has not condemned your parents to Hell. Their own actions have separated them from the best God has to offer in their lives. They took a vow in front of God and we Catholics believe deeply that those vows mean something forever. That God does not want us to hop from person to person as if we had not united our bodies and souls with our husbands/wives.

God is not damning your parents. He is being left out of their lives, as if His sanctioning of their original union meant nothing. THEY are choosing to do things this way. I know it's hard to put the blame where it belongs, which is on your parents, not on God.

But that is where the responsibility lies, isn't it? Your parents and their new spouses or shack-ups have made their conscious choice to divorce and re-marry (or not) despite the requirements of their faith.

Ok then the question still remains why should I care about my own salvation? My parents aren't some anti-catholics who only stick with Catholicism out of tradition. They worked to raise me and were the influence that made me want to work for confirmation when I was eleven. If by there own choice I'm never going to see them again in Heaven then why bother striving to reach there myself? I'll be honest that I love my parents more than I love God; they've been there and supported me while God only brought me attack from the secular world, hardship, and doubtful events that I'm suppose to believe without evidence.


#16

[quote="Flavius_Aetius, post:12, topic:229638"]
The part where not getting their first marriage annuled means any other relationship is adultery.

[/quote]

Is it not possible to repent from adultery?


#17

#18

yes but that nor any other mortal sin does not automatically condemn someone to hell, that is your interpretation, not the teaching of the Church.

Is it not possible to repent from adultery?

Do you realize how difficult it will be to even suggest that my mother marriage with someone she loves, and has a child with is nothing more than adultery? Even suggesting such a thing would be more harmful than good, I can already see it would just turn into an attack on the Church and there would be zero chance of getting her to agree with me. The same for my father.

You know what I lied and realize it now, they are only Culturally Catholic while still remaining theistic; so Annulment and anything else shouldn't bother me and if they won't give a damn about their souls than neither will I.

As for myself I still feel hatred just thinking of God. He's not love, he's mystery. He's the rag that blinds you and the voice that tells you to move forward when you know your surrounded by cliffsides.


#19

[quote="Flavius_Aetius, post:18, topic:229638"]
Do you realize how difficult it will be to even suggest that my mother marriage with someone she loves, and has a child with is nothing more than adultery? Even suggesting such a thing would be more harmful than good, I can already see it would just turn into an attack on the Church and there would be zero chance of getting her to agree with me. The same for my father.
and the voice that tells you to move forward when you know your surrounded by cliffsides.

[/quote]

and you have been advised several times not to address your parents on those terms, as it is not your place or perogative. What is it you want to "move forward on"? Why not move forward in a far more productive era, that of studying what Christ and his Church actually do teach on the subject of salvation and sin

?

[quote="Flavius_Aetius, post:18, topic:229638"]
As for myself I still feel hatred just thinking of God. He's not love, he's mystery

God did not create this situation. a series of wilfull actions and decisions on the part of several human beings have done this. Do not blame God.

[/quote]


#20

[quote="Flavius_Aetius, post:18, topic:229638"]
Do you realize how difficult it will be to even suggest that my mother marriage with someone she loves, and has a child with is nothing more than adultery? Even suggesting such a thing would be more harmful than good, I can already see it would just turn into an attack on the Church and there would be zero chance of getting her to agree with me. The same for my father.

You know what I lied and realize it now, they are only Culturally Catholic while still remaining theistic; so Annulment and anything else shouldn't bother me and if they won't give a damn about their souls than neither will I.

As for myself I still feel hatred just thinking of God. He's not love, he's mystery. He's the rag that blinds you and the voice that tells you to move forward when you know your surrounded by cliffsides.

[/quote]

No. You are angry at your parents and are projecting that anger onto God. I think you care very deeply about their souls, and are distressed to consider that they do not subscribe to the faith they taught you. It is possible that you will reject that faith, and all others, due to thinking that your parents have lied to you. It is also possible that after a time of feeling angry and bitter toward your parents and God, you will discover a deeper and more personal faith, one that doesn't depend so much on your parents. Of course we all want the people we love the most on this earth to meet us in heaven. At this point your helplessness to affect any sort of change on your parents' part is very frustrating.

That picture you paint, of God telling you to move forward with blinded eyes? God would never do that to his precious children. In fact, I could tell you stories of how God was present in my life even though I wasn't acknowledging him to be. I had walked away from Him but He never left my side, not once, and when I finally started to pray again, He was right there, welcoming me back.

You can get angry at God, you can tell him that you are angry. He can take your anger and still transform you. Give it all to Him, unburden yourself of the fear for your parents and their future. He will be there for you. Just ask him to help you. Even if all you can say is "Help me" it's enough. If you turn your heart to ice, he can still melt that frozen rock and come inside.

Don't wall yourself off. Talk to someone, a priest, someone you can confide in. I have a strong sense that you are going to get some peace about this soon.

And I will pray for you.


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