Annunciation and Visitation


#1

I know where to find the story of the Annunciation and Visitation in Matthew and Luke, but who told them (Matthew and Luke) about these events? Did Mary tell them? Joseph, Elizabeth, Zachariah? I realize they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but is there another answer. Someone please help.
Thank you.


#2

I don’t know why that’s distressing. Remember, it was a small community. They probably all told them. St. Matthew, after all, was an Apostle. He lived three years with Jesus and Mary. And if you read the intro to St. Luke, he interviewed all the original people he could find.

I hope that helps.


#3

It’s a great question and leads us into the study of the Bible and the people who wrote the books. Who were they? How were they living? Who were they writing for? Who was their audience?

Matthew was one of the Apostles. He was an eye witness and friend of Jesus. He wrote his Gospel to a Jewish audience struggling with traditional Jewish custom and Christianity. Jesus in Matthews Gospel is a teacher, a leader, holding great authority. More authority then Moses. As Moses brought down the Law , Jesus completed, added to and changed it. Matthew would have known Mary. Matthew wrote his Gospel around 80 AD.

Luke was not an Apostle but said to have associated and worked with Paul and/ or his disciples. So not an eye witness, and he says this in his Gospel. Luke wrote his Gospel to the Greek Gentile peoples Luke’s Jesus is kind, peaceful, loving and forgiving. Luke writes the Prodigal Son.
Luke is said to be a masterful writer, one of the Biblical best.

Luke was a Greek convert and was probably writing his Gospel at the same time Matthew was writing his. Luke was writing in Greece while Matthew was most likely writing his Gospel in Syria. Luke , as did Matthew, use Marks Gospel as source material. Mark wrote around 60 AD, was not an Apostle but perhaps a cousin of Barnabas. Mark wrote of a very human Jesus, one always doing. A suffering servant. A man who could get frustrated, angry, sad, celebrate with friends. Jesus is always doing, in Marks Gospel.
Mark wrote concurrent with the Roman persecution of Christians under Nero. Matthew and Luke softened Marks image of Jesus and added to the Gospel story , making it their own story of Jesus, twenty or so years later.

John was also an Apostle. His Gospel is very different and cuts right to the chase, Jesus is part of the Trinity.


#4

Hello De_Maria, Thank you for your response and just want you to be clear, I wasn’t “distressed”. Not looking for an argument, just an answer I could give to my own thoughts. When meditatating on the Rosary, as Im sure you know, you’re supposed to get deep into it. This was a question I wanted an answer to. Most of the Rosary dealt with eye witnesses. The Annunciation was just Mary and the archangel Gabriel. I’m only asking how two of the Gospel writers knew of this. Peace and thank you for your response.

De_Maria
October 28 |

Romeo:
I know where to find the story of the Annunciation and Visitation in Matthew and Luke, but who told them (Matthew and Luke) about these events? Did Mary tell them? Joseph, Elizabeth, Zachariah? I realize they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but is there another answer. Someone please help.
Thank you.

I don’t know why that’s distressing. Remember, it was a small community. They probably all told them. St. Matthew, after all, was an Apostle. He lived three years with Jesus and Mary. And if you read the intro to St. Luke, he interviewed all the original people he could find.

I hope that helps.

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#5

Thank you Rose! I understand there are “assumptions” as to how Matthew and Mark wrote of Mary’s Annunciation. Perfectly! I just haven’t come across anything that explains to me HOW THEY KNEW. :hugs:Thanks very much,Romeo

Roseeurekacross
October 28 |

Matthew was one of the Apostles. He was an eye witness and friend of Jesus. He wrote his Gospel to a Jewish audience struggling with traditional Jewish custom and Christianity. Jesus in Matthews Gospel is a teacher, a leader, holding great authority. More authority then Moses. As Moses brought down the Law , Jesus completed, added to and changed it. Matthew would have known Mary. Matthew wrote his Gospel around 80 AD.

Luke was not an Apostle but said to have associated and worked with Paul and/ or his disciples. So not an eye witness, and he says this in his Gospel. Luke wrote his Gospel to the Greek Gentile peoples Luke’s Jesus is kind, peaceful, loving and forgiving.
Luke is said to be a masterful writer, one of the Biblical best.

Luke was a Greek convert and was probably writing his Gospel at the same time Matthew was writing his. Luke was writing in Hreece while Matthew was most likely writing his Gospel in Syria. Luke , as did Matthew, use Marks Gospel as source material. Mark wrote around 60 AD, was not an Apostle but perhaps a cousin of Barnabas. Mark wrote of a very human Jesus, one always doing. A suffering servant. A man who could get frustrated, angry, sad, celebrate with friends. Jesus is always doing, in Marks Gospel.
Mark wrote concurrent with the Roman persecution of Christians under Nero. Matthew and Luke softened Marks image of Jesus and added to the Gospel twenty or so years later.

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#6

Mary lived on after Jesus.
Who, loving Him, would not have tried to find out as much as possible about Him, about events in His life, and in hers as His Mother?
And she would want to share and speak about her beloved Son.
(Which of us mothers do not ‘rave on’ about our children?)

Mary would have been comforted to share all that related to her most precious Son. She would have done so humbly but with deep quiet emotion.
And the stories would have been shared with others who cherished our Savior.


#7

You don’t think Jesus told them when He was preparing them to run His Church? Nor when He opened the Scriptures to them?


#8

Trishie,Thank you for your time! YES! I know all of the assuming possibilities. I’ve lived with them all my life and I still do. The question remains, “ How did Matthew and Luke KNOW this? Does it say ANYWHERE that The Blessed Mother, or any one else, told them? There are eye witnesses to most every other mystery of the Rosary. At the Annunciation, it was The Blessed Mother and the Angel Gabriel. Are we only assuming that Mary and Joseph told each other and then they told others? It’s not written any where. Thanks again,Romeo

Trishie
October 28 |

Mary lived on after Jesus.
Who, loving Him, would not have tried to find out as much as possible about Him, about events in His life, and in hers as His Mother?
And she would want to share and speak about her beloved Son.
(Which of us mothers do not ‘rave on’ about our children?)

Mary would have been comforted to share all that related to her most precious Son. She would have done so humbly but with deep quiet emotion.
And the stories would have been shared with others who cherished our Savior.

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#9

Ha! Thanks though, De_Maria,I’ve been searching for a while, though it does not alter my faith in the least!God bless,Romeo

De_Maria
October 28 |

Romeo:
I just haven’t come across anything that explains to me HOW THEY KNEW.

You don’t think Jesus told them when He was preparing them to run His Church? Nor when He opened the Scriptures to them?

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In Reply To

Romeo
October 28 |

Thank you Rose! I understand there are “assumptions” as to how Matthew and Mark wrote of Mary’s Annunciation. Perfectly! I just haven’t come across anything that explains to me HOW THEY KNEW. :hugs:Thanks very much,Romeo Roseeurekacross October 28 | Matthew was one of the Apostles. He was an…
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#10

Matthew knew because Mary most likely told him.

Luke knew because , working from Mark’s Gospel, and what would be common knowledge at the time, he spoke with those who knew Mary.

There were no need for assumptions. Mary was there, Mary recounted how the Angel Gabriel visited her.

Mary went to live with John, after the Criucifixionn


#11

.Absolutely, Rose,
Mary went to live with John after Jesus’ death, as Jesus had asked John to care for His Mother from the Cross, and the bible tells us that John took her home to live with him.

So no conjecture, Romeo, but undeniable fact.
These disciples stayed in communication after Jesus died.
Remember how they were all gathered together when Magdalen told them of Jesus’ resurrection, and everyone except Thomas when Jesus visited after His death . They were together for Jesus’ ascension.
And when the Holy Spirit came, they were all together, United thus biblical proof that they remained in contact
and the most UNlikely thing was that they would fail to discuss everything about Jesus, including everything that Mary told John.


#12

They are all assumptions. They are not unbelievable, but they’re assumptions. I’m looking to find out when and where this was told to either Gospel Writer. “Not” BELIEVABLE Assumptions
Thanks again

Roseeurekacross
October 28 |

Matthew knew because Mary most likely told him.

Luke knew because , working from Mark’s Gospel, and what would be common knowledge at the time, he spoke with those who knew Mary.

There were no need for assumptions. Mary was there, Mary recounted how the Angel Gabriel visited her.

Mary went to live with John, after the Criucifixionn

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In Reply To

Romeo
October 28 |

Thank you Rose! I understand there are “assumptions” as to how Matthew and Mark wrote of Mary’s Annunciation. Perfectly! I just haven’t come across anything that explains to me HOW THEY KNEW. :hugs:Thanks very much,Romeo Roseeurekacross October 28 | Matthew was one of the Apostles. He was an…
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#13

Romeo see Rose and my responses before this post you just made. The answer is there, based on what the bible tells us
God’s blessings


#14

No. I don’t really know why you’re having this problem but if we focus on St. Luke, for a moment. He wasn’t with Jesus. He was a gentile doctor. Therefore, you could easily put into doubt everything in his Gospel.

We know that everything that he Teaches therein, is part of the deposit of Faith which Jesus Christ Taught the Church. And it wasn’t questioned by anyone in the Early Church. So, what makes you now claim that it is mere assumption? When, he, himself, says that it is the result of careful investigation?

Luke 1:1 Since many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the events that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as those who were eyewitnesses from the beginning and ministers of the word have handed them down to us, 3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew, to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may realize the certainty of the teachings you have received.


#15

Triage, again, you’re making this an argument! Please stop! Where does it say ANYWHERE that Mary told ANYONE?

Trishie
October 28 |

.Absolutely, Rose,
Mary went to live with John after Jesus’ death, as Jesus had asked John to care for His Mother from the Cross, and the bible tells us that John took her home to live with him.

So no conjecture, Romeo, but undeniable fact.
These disciples stayed in communication after Jesus died.
Remember how they were all gathered together when Magellan told them of Jesus’ resurrection, and everyone except Thomas when Jesus visited after His death
And when the Holy Spirit came, they were all together, United thus proof that they remained in contact
and the most UNlikely thing was that they would fail to discuss everything about Jesus, including everything that Mary told John.

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#16

May the Holy Spirit enlighlighten and guide you, and grant you peace


#17

De_Maria,I’m not looking for a Sermon. I understand EVERYTHING you’re sending back to me. I KNOW ALL OF THAT- BUT PLEASE, FOR THE LAST TIME, refer to my “very simple question”. I can “assume” you’re right about EVERYTHING, but I want to know the answer to my question w/o ANY SERMON or ASSUMPTION. I hope we are CLEAR now. AND AGAIN, thank you.***Dont want a, “Well, she and Matthew were ole pals, or Mark was a follower of Paul…I’m not looking for what “appears” to be very possible and believable. I want to know HOW those Gospel Writers knew. NOT YOUR OPINION OF HOW THEY KNEW! But a fact, of how they knew.

De_Maria
October 28 |

Romeo:
They are all assumptions.

No. I don’t really know why you’re having this problem but if we focus on St. Luke, for a moment. He wasn’t with Jesus. He was a gentile doctor. Therefore, you could easily put into doubt everything in his Gospel.

We know that everything that he Teaches therein, is part of the deposit of Faith which Jesus Christ Taught the Church. And it wasn’t questioned by anyone in the Early Church. So, what makes you now claim that it is mere assumption? When, he, himself, says that it is the result of careful investigation?

Luke 1:1 Since many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the events that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as those who were eyewitnesses from the beginning and ministers of the word have handed them down to us, 3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew, to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may realize the certainty of the teachings you have received.

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In Reply To

Romeo
October 28 |

They are all assumptions. They are not unbelievable, but they’re assumptions. I’m looking to find out when and where this was told to either Gospel Writer. “Not” BELIEVABLE Assumptions Thanks again Roseeurekacross October 28 | Matthew knew because Mary most likely told him. Luke knew becau…
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#18

It’s obvious that you don’t.

I KNOW ALL OF THAT- BUT PLEASE, FOR THE LAST TIME, refer to my “very simple question”. I can “assume” you’re right about EVERYTHING, but I want to know the answer to my question w/o ANY SERMON or ASSUMPTION. I hope we are CLEAR now. AND AGAIN, thank you.***Dont want a, “Well, she and Matthew were ole pals, or Mark was a follower of Paul…

I didn’t say any of that. Read what I said.

I’m not looking for what “appears” to be very possible and believable. I want to know HOW those Gospel Writers knew. NOT YOUR OPINION OF HOW THEY KNEW! But a fact, of how they knew.

It’s clearly spelled out in Catholic Teaching and in Scripture. Your problem is that you don’t believe the Catholic Church in this.

If you want to have a polite discussion on this, address what I said. Otherwise, you’re just blowing off my responses because you want to nurse your pride, knowing that your question has been answered and your assumption proven false.


#19

They are not assumptions. They are eye witness accounts. Is Jesus Passion and Resurrection an assumption or a fact?

You must not believe Matthew, Luke, Mark and John lived

This is as much fact as you will ever have, the Gospels, eyewitness accounts, and accounts from those working with eye witnesses. Luke also wrote Acts of the Apostles. Have you read that yet?


#20

Please forget it Rose. Thank you for trying to help. For some very odd reason, you feel the need to believe that I DONT BELIEVE the Annunciation. ALL I ASKED was where and when were Matthew or Luke TOLD of the Annunciation And WHO TOLD THEM. I’m not looking for any story that makes sense. I’m looking for documented proof of that question. “Who” told MARK and Matthew about the Annunciation? Where did you find that answer. Not who could have…

Roseeurekacross
October 29 |

They are not assumptions. They are eye witness accounts. Is Jesus Passion and Resurrection an assumption or a fact?

You must not believe Matthew, Luke, Mark and John lived

This is as much fact as you will ever have, the Gospels, eyewitness accounts, and accounts from those working with eye witnesses. Luke also wrote Acts of the Apostles. Have you read that yet?

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In Reply To

Romeo
October 28 |

They are all assumptions. They are not unbelievable, but they’re assumptions. I’m looking to find out when and where this was told to either Gospel Writer. “Not” BELIEVABLE Assumptions Thanks again Roseeurekacross October 28 | Matthew knew because Mary most likely told him. Luke knew becau…
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