Another Mormon Question - Jesus as Savior?

I heard Mitt Romney the other night talk about his faith and how he believes in God and that Jesus is his Savior. Do Mormons believe in the Trinity? I’m trying to figure out why Mormons are not considered Christians by many. By his remark, I would think that as long as he believes Jesus is his Savior Protestants would agree he was a Christian?

I’m sorry to say that my 34 years of Mormonism focused on “the atonement” but never spelled out that Jesus is LORD. Although most Mormons will tell you that they believe that Jesus is the Savior of the world, they will not tell you that Jesus is GOD. They will tell you that He is their elder brother, brother who chose to be the one to come down to earth to provide free will while their brother Lucifer chose to come down to earth and “make” everyone behave. The council of gods chose Jesus’ plan because humans could have their own free will. This is big in mormondom.

Jesus is, to a Mormon, the savior of this world. Other worlds have other saviors etc.

It’s a convoluted mess, IMO

in Christ
Steph
former Mormon now home in Rome.

This is a tricky question- there are a lot of other posts about it. I’ll let you know what I know/think though…

As far as I know, Mormons don’t accept the traditional view of “trinity”, like Catholics and Protestants, although they will still call themselves Christians because they “believe” in Jesus Christ.

The Church doesn’t recognize the baptism of Mormons because Mormon baptism isn’t performed using the trinitarian formula (i.e. In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit), thus rendering a Mormon baptism invalid- they are not part of the Church: not Christian.

As a Catholic I stand by the Church’s view. However, even before I became Catholic I never believed Mormons were truly Christians in the sense of the word because they don’t believe that Jesus was THE son of God; they believe that he is A son of God. The Godhead, as the call it, is literally three seperate beings not connected in anyway. They are not Christians.

I always wondered why they fight so hard to try to be part of “our” group, you know? Why fight so hard to be called Christians? Why not accept the fact that their religion doesn’t fit the definition, especially if they believe their religion is true? I never got it…

With that said, Mormons have EXCELLENT Christian morals and virtues and are some of the most sincere, loving people around.

Mormons hold to some pretty distinctive beliefs which are beyond what Mark Shea calls “rock-bottom, non-negotiable, grade A, can’t-do-without-'em beliefs” of Christianity (see mark-shea.com/6.html). To begin with, all Christians believe that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle; Mormonism explicitly denies this. Also, there are still some Latter Day Saint denominations which practice plural marriage even though the official church abandoned the practice in 1890.

Here are some links which go into greater detail:
Distinctive Beliefs of the Mormon Church
The Gods of the Mormon Church
Mormon Stumpers
Mormonism’s Baptism for the Dead
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Mormons do not believe in the Trinity as most Christians do. They believe in God the Father (one God) Jesus Christ ( God two) and Holy Spirit ( God three).

Here’s one Mormon who will tell you Jesus is GOD, and every single copy of the Book of Mormon says the same thing on the title page: “And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL GOD.”

How could you have been a Mormon for 34 years and never seen or understood the first page of the Book of Mormon?

Alma

Erich: I am completely confused by your posting, and hope that you will evaluate your answer and correct it. You state: “To begin with, all Christians believe that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle; Mormonism explicitly denies this. Also, there are still some Latter Day Saint denominations which practice plural marriage even though the official church abandoned the practice in 1890.”

First, plural marriage is NOT practiced by any member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. If discovered, the person is excommunicated. Yes there are people who claim to be members of their church and practice plural marriage - but they are not. Their names have been removed from the records of the church.

Second, are you suggesting that God (who I assume you agree is a Christian) if he decided to speak to man, couldn’t because the apostles have died, and that if he did, he would no longer be a Christian because "all Christians believe that public revelation ended:? If God decided he needed to talk to someone and they listened, that person is not a Christian? I don’t think Christianity decides what God can and can’t do. And I am equally sure God will be surprised to here that as well. That sounds like a God made by man, not man made by God. Either God can talk to man anytime he wants, because he is all powerful, or he can’t because he isn’t - therefore he isn’t God.

The God I worship is a God of miracles. And while he has never spoken with me, I do not doubt for a minute that if he wanted to do so, he could. And I’d still be a Christian after talking with him just as I was before.

So you are the first I have heard say that this means that He is One God. I have heard tell many times that Jesus is THE god of this planet and that he is eternal. Similarly to how humans will be exalted to being THE god of their planet. Because of the pre-existence, they are also eternal, yet no one wants to define what eternal means in this case.

I get the “one in purpose” argument every time I bring this up. I also get the argument that Heavenly Father is only THE god of this universe, and that all planets inhabited by human gods are to bring glory to Heavenly Father. In a sense it seems they are saying they will be the saviors of their own worlds. Or maybe that their worlds won’t need a savior because of the perfection that Jesus created here. Or that the couple’s “first-born” will be the savior of the new planet. No matter what I ask, I get the run around. I ask in the most respectful manner possible and usually end up with the answer, “that is not important to our salvation.”

I think one of the ways to better understand is to ask an LDS if they are allowed to say a prayer like, “Jesus, I adore you, Jesus, I worship you.” If Jesus is THE eternal God, then He is one in being with God The Father. If He is one in being, then praying to The Father is the same as praying to The Son and The Holy Spirit.

Another Mormon Question - Jesus as Savior?

In a sense, Yes, BUT you have to adhere to many LDS teachings, and struggle all your life, but as a Christian, you are SAVED, but still as a Christian being SAVED, you still need to Pray, Study and Repent. Mormons, trying to adhere to their teachings, tend to get burned out doing it, with all the things they have to do. To be Christian, you basically just except the cross, and that Jesus died for your salvation, but only if you accept HIS dying for your sins.


I been a Mormon since 1971, and have noticed that the LDS have much more detail of the Afterlife, than most Christians do, also there have been documented Near Death Experiences in it’s early history, and these NDE’s may have effected Mormon Doctorine.

Google of Joseph Smith and Near Death Experiences.


"Nigh unto Death": NDE Research and the Book of Mormon:

Raymond Moody has written that the most prominent of the Western religions to accept the near-death experience (NDE) as a doorway to the spiritual world has been The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormons who have reported and collected NDEs take the accounts almost for granted in the context of the faith…Ian Wilson observes that Mormon teachings of the afterlife are more detailed than normative Christianity and match rather well the NDE…

Alma, (good BOM name…).
Do you believe in the trinity as spelled out by the RCC? Answer plainly please. If Jesus is the ETERNAL GOD, why do you believe that He is seperate from the Father?

in Christ
Steph

alma,

who was God before Jesus was born as a spirit child to Elohim?

Who was God while Elohim was a mortal man working out his own salvation?

Who are the gods of all the worlds organized by Elohim’s exalted brothers?

Who will be the Gods of the worlds that Elohim’s exalted sons will organize and populate?

Will the spirit children of exalted mormons from this earth need to gain bodies and go through an earthly existence like us? and if so who will atone for their sins?

Catholics believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE God and the ONLY god anywhere ever. They have always been God and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial. That is why we are skeptical when you say Jesus is Lord. Because while the words are similar the meanings are not.

Like I said, the official church (i.e. the largest and most well-known denomination of the Latter Day Saint movement, namely the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) abandoned the practice of plural marriage in 1890. But, as mormonfundamentalism.com/ makes clear, “the most prominent difference between Mormon fundamentalists and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly called the ‘Mormon Church’) is the practice of plural marriage or polygamy.”

Just as there are individuals who apply the term “Mormon” to themselves but who in fact are not members of the LDS church, there are groups who apply the term “Christian” to themselves but who in fact are not (i.e. the LDS church)

Sounds like you don’t understand what I mean by the terms “public revelation” and “private revelation.” As CCC 65-67 teaches,

God has said everything in his Word

[65](“http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow(”) "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect, and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:
In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word – and he has no more to say … because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.27There will be no further Revelation

[66](“http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow(”) "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

[67](“http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow(”) Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations.”

This is what Catholics – and, in fact, all non-Catholic Christians – mean when they say that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle.

I recommend the article Revelation: Public and Private for a much more detailed discussion of this topic.

Yes, He could. He has certainly spoken with countless others over the last 2000 or so years… in fact never once in all that time has He contradicted His own Word!

Whether or not you were truly Christian before depends in part on whether or not you held to any beliefs that contradict what true Christians have always believed. Whether or not you are truly Christian after depends in part on whether or not you continue to hold to any beliefs that contradict what true Christians have always believed.

Since no one else brought this up, allow me. God is a Christian?

Why would God be considered a Christian?

As I was considering this, it occurred to me that maybe such a thought would be a result of having a God like Heavenly Father, who is an exalted man, and no more.

With all due respect, the definition of “Christian” you are presenting here is more of an Evangelical’s definition rather than the majority of Christianity’s definition. The LDS practice of having to cooperate in salvation is actually a little more in line with Catholic teaching in this one area.

I been a Mormon since 1971, and have noticed that the LDS have much more detail of the Afterlife, than most Christians do, also there have been documented Near Death Experiences in it’s early history, and these NDE’s may have effected Mormon Doctorine.

Google of Joseph Smith and Near Death Experiences.


I have been a Catholic since 1971 too. :slight_smile: But that is the year of my birth so I think you are referencing becoming LDS at more of an age of reason. If you are open to it, I would encourage you to look into the absolute treasure trove of visions of the afterlife found amongst the Catholic Saints. In a 2000 year old Church the sheer volume is amazing. I think though, one of the big differences is that the Catholic saints know that theirs is only a vision. I think in the NDE of the LDS they might think that the vision is an actual reality. So when they disagree with each other it seems to be somewhat devastating.

Please forgive me for asking this but could an exmorman catholic PM me? I am a catholic who has been considering the mormon church since January and am trying to back away from it now. Am confused about some things.
Thanks.
Johannah

If an ex-Mormon is not available, and has not PM’d you please let us know. There are many of us who have looked at the LDS church in a quest for Truth. We also can help you to sort through the confusion as we already have done so. My area is heavily LDS. It is hard not to be influenced by their exemplary lives. No matter how wonderful their lives may be, their theology has some serious holes.

I got ya covered. check your PM

johannahw:

I happen to be an ex-mormon and finally found where I belong as God had intended it to be for all of us here in his church. However, you should know there are many wonderful people on this forum that have studied the mormon religion and probably know more than I do.:slight_smile: But, I would be happy to help you with any questions you may have.:angel1:

From what I understand and read the Catholic Church not only doesn’t recognize the Mormon baptism because of the form that is used but also consider them a cult not a Christian religion.

griz

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