Another muslim thread by dolphinlove

So, you claim we worship partners, multiple Gods etc muslims
Prove your claim, and yes, i know what the quran says, but i also know what we actually DO believe, prove we worship more than one God… :slight_smile:

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Then whoever disputes with you concerning him (Iesa (Jesus)) after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, (i.e. Iesa (Jesus)) being a slave of Allah, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad SAW) “Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allah upon those who lie.”

( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #61)

I am kinda lost, how does that prove Christians are pagans? I cannot really read the Quran very good, but um, doesn’t it just say Jesus is a slave of God?

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

It does not say Christians are pagans . Let me explain the context.

A group of Christians visited Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) at the mosque in Madina. They stayed there for 3 days & nights & had a debate with him over if Jesus (pbuh) is God or not.

Debate went on & on ; then God asked the Prophet to challenge those Christians . Prophet went to the open field with his daughter Fatima , cousin & son in law Ali (ra) , grandsons & asked Christians to say that if Jesus (pbuh) is not God , then curse of God will be upon us & all family members.

another related verse :

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth.

The Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (“Be!” - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers.

Say not: “Three (trinity)!” Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son.

To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is AllSufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)

Not this cursing business again!!! :smiley:

Thou shalt not put the Lord, your God to the test!! :eek: :mad:

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

huh…no one is challenging God but the Christians who worship a slave of God as deity.

Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God , nor the angels who are near
( to God )…holy Quran , Chapter Women , verse 172
( 4: 172 )

No, Muhammad was putting God to the test in his “debate” with the Christians - a test which I believe the Christians rightly refused to participate in. My understanding is that Muslims continue this practice today - in fact, if I remember correctly, you attempted to do this in another thread. :tsktsk:

And, once again, Christians DO NOT “worship a slave of God as deity”. We worship The One True God as He has revealed Himself to the world. :slight_smile:

If Moslems can say here that Christians worship more than one God, would it be fair to say that since Christianity teaches that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (which Muslims deny), that Muslims don’t worship God at all?

The Islamic view is no different than the Jewish view

This thread is a lost cause; God revealed Himself to us a Trinity, 3 Persons in One God. That’s a fact, but remains a mystery. If we cannot fully explain this and have even ‘Christians’ like the Oneness Penticostals etc, how are Muslims going to see Jesus as anything else but man?

As we all know, the word Trinity isn’t even in the bible. Muslims will never understand this concept unless they accept the authority of Jesus. From a carnal perspective, it does look like Father, Son & Holy Spirit are 3 distinctive beings.

My opinion is that the christians are pagans,just like buddhists,hindus etc

its just sad that jews and muslims dont get along,considering the fact we are almost the only pure monotheist on this earth…politics destroy everything :rolleyes:

I’d like to know how you see Buddhists as Pagans. I could probably be called a pagan for that it was once, maybe still?, used to describe someone from the countryside, a country bumpkin, and I do live in the middle of nowhere on a farm, but religiously, I doubt the term Pagan could be applied to Buddhists, or me.

to muslims everything outside monotheism(judaism,islam) is paganism.

Then Muslims are mistaken, unless you guys have a different term for the definition of Paganism.

the moment they understand what we believe in is the moment they realize they followed a man who did not know what he was talking about…

The fact that the mystery is mysterious can only be an objection to a small mind which refuses that which is deeper than its understanding.
A quote taken from the Magnificat Rosary Companion.

Unless God opens the hearts of the unbeliever’s they will never believe in the Trinity. We who do can pray for them to open their hearts to hear the true Word of God.

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:thumbsup: My thoughts exactly.

And being aware of the fact that if they leave Islam means at the very least being exiled and kicked out of their families or at the worst, death.

So, for most of them it is probably easier to just accept the status quo of whatever they are told, or read in that QUran of theirs.

Let’s just say
that I was an atheist, alternatively seeking for religion
after so much thought I would consider a God as one, but I don’t believe Muhammad as prophet of God considering what he’s done. Am I a pagan, Muslim?

Muslim really only insisting on the tawheed, the oneness of God, as if it’s the most important teaching, albeit all the other thing that is necessary to live up life in fullness. If muslim consider the Judaism as the only other alternative for a non pagan religion, why you are the worst enemy of them? Aren’t you ridiculing your self?

What’s so amazing in realizing that all has one source, the Prima Causa, that everything must have come from one reason, God? The Jews has understood it earlier than other people. When they lived under the enslavement of the Egypt, they must have pride within their hearts that even the powerful Egypt only prayed for the god of the sun, while they prayed for the God that created it. They stayed fearless and composed to bear all the difficulties knowing that their God was above any other god, the local god and godesses that other nations were perhaps engaging themselves. Don’t u see that it was almost like a competition of gods? That’s why your Islamic view was almost like comparing God to other gods? This sound almost the same understanding of God in Judaism. But we have to remember that once we understand that God is one, it bears the understanding that we all come from one, none is more favorable to God, everybody has the same right in Him and the same access. And that understanding also implicitly covers the notion that we don’t have to compete again to get His approval regarding nation, race, etc, as we’re one family,that we must act like brothers and sisters. So if you insisted that we’re pagan, you don’t believe in one God then!

The Christians see their religion as a continuation of that line of Judaism, we of course see that God is one too. But instead of focusing on the the almightyness and the untouchable nature of God, the “brainy” side that creates everything as we know in the aspect of Father, we have come to know the “hearty” side that embraces and accompany the life of everything in the “Son” as He had become one of us, and we also acknowledge the dynamic of “work in progress” that in the Holy spirit. Isn’t that a complete awesome comprehension? That’s why we explained over and over again that the divinity of Christ that He had shown during His life, must be attributed to the nature of His “Sonship” of God, else how can we explain His authority that no other prophets ever showed, none ever really!

So if you’re insisting on the Oneness of God, yes we do comprehend that too, but in a complete understanding.

So says Muhammed. He has no bearing on our beliefs.

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