Another question

How do we as Catholics, reconcile a quote like this:
“This war * would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits. We owe it to popery that we now see our land reddened with the blood of her noblest sons. Though there were great differences of opinion between the South and the North on the question of slavery, neither Jeff Davis nor anyone of the leading men of the Confederacy would have dared to attack the North, had they not relied on the promises of the Jesuits, that, under the mask of Democracy, the money and the arms of the Roman Catholic, even the arms of France were at their disposal, if they would attack us. I pity the priests, the bishops and monks of Rome in the United States, when the people realize that they are, in great part, responsible for the tears and the blood shed in this war. I conceal what I know, on that subject, from the knowledge of the nation; for if the people knew the whole truth, this war would turn into a religious war, and it would at once, take a tenfold more savage and bloody character. It would become merciless as all religious wars are. It would become a war of extermination on both sides. The Protestants of both the North and the South would surely unite to exterminate the priests and the Jesuits, if they could hear what Professor Morse has said to me of the plots made in the very city of Rome to destroy this Republic, and if they could learn how the priests, the nuns, and the monks, which daily land on our shores, under the pretext of preaching their religion, instructing the people in their schools, taking care of the sick in the hospitals, are nothing else but the emissaries of the Pope, of Napoleon, and the other despots of Europe, to undermine our institutions, alienate the hearts of our people from our constitution, and our laws, destroy our schools, and prepare a reign of anarchy here as they have done in Ireland, in Mexico, in Spain, and wherever there are any people who want to be free.”-Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865; 16th President of the United States)

I’ve always been taught that the teaching of Jesuits being behind absurd conspiracies is just that, a conspiracy. However, this quote by Abe Lincoln seems to fly in the face of that. What say you all?*

"The Jesuits are a military organization, not a religious order. Their chief is a general of an army, not the mere father abbot of a monastery. And the aim of this organization is POWER. Power in its most despotic exercise. Absolute power, universal power, power to control the world by the volition of a single man…

The General of the Jesuits insists on being master, sovereign, over the sovereign. Wherever the Jesuits are admitted they will be masters, cost what it may…

Every act, every crime, however atrocious, is a meritorious work, if committed for the interest of the Society of the Jesuits, or by the order of its general." -Napoleon I (i.e., Napoleon Bonaparte; 1769-1821; emperor of the French)

“My history of the Jesuits is not eloquently written, but it is supported by unquestionable authorities, [and] is very particular and very horrible. Their [the Jesuit Order’s] restoration [in 1814 by Pope Pius VII] is indeed a step toward darkness, cruelty, despotism, [and] death. … I do not like the appearance of the Jesuits. If ever there was a body of men who merited eternal damnation on earth and in hell, it is this Society of [Ignatius de] Loyola.” -John Adams (1735-1826; 2nd President of the United States)

Are these historical figures just paranoid, or is there more to this than I’ve been lead to believe?

Of course the utter irony is to be found in the fact that the United States was predominantly founded by Protestants fleeing the tyranny of Protestant Kings (the head of the Protestant Church of England) and the Protestant Monarchy that they put in power by rebelling against papal and Church authority and demanding state rule. It was Protestant England who traded slaves taken from the conquests of the Islamic Empire to sell them to Protestant plantation owners and states run predominantly by Protestants in the South.

So I find those statements blaming Jesuits for all the sins of their Protestant forefathers ironic indeed. I did not know Lincoln and Adams had written those documents. It sounds to me like there was a lot more paranoia going around in Protestant minds than most of us imagined. No doubt on their day of judgement before God they will try to blame Catholics for inciting and manipulating them to rebel against The Catholic Church in a conspiracy to send them all to hell and open up more vacancies in heaven. :rolleyes:

James

I suppose these quotes came from the same website where you got the quote about the Pope being able to overturn any law of the U.S.

Honestly, seeking out such sites and filling your mind with such notions really borders on sinful activities IMHO. You should talk to a priest about your obsession with conspiracy theories that paint the Church and its members as evildoers.

As to these supposed “quotes”. They are fabrications of the anti-Catholic Know-Nothing Party of the late 1800s. They are propaganda, and these quotes are not authentic.

Hence the reason you wll only find them on the internet perpetuated by nut cases, not in any historical documents.

Your absolute gullibility in this area means you could really be in spiritual danger if you continue to seek out this junk. Talk to a priest.

Johnny, don’t let them rattle you. That is just a load of a-C propaganda and a pretty extensive discourse of it can be found here. Many people were anti-Catholic when this country began (and many still are!) and over time the United States has not been free of vitriolic propaganda and even murderous persecution of Catholics. Do some research on the KKK and the “Know Nothings”.

The fact is that the Jesuits had nothing whatever to do with the Civil War, (aside perhaps from ministering to Catholics regardless of where they lived.)

With the development of the internet, you are going to see more and more such and one has to realize that every agenda out there will sooner or later find a home there.

Question everything they say and make 'em verify their sources. You soon discover that most cannot (or will not, though often it’s the same thing).

You did the right thing in posting that here. :thumbsup:

There are conspiracies for just about everything. I have yet to see evidence, I repeat, EVIDENCE of a single one. You should consider something more constructive for your passtime. Ham Radio, the piano, photography, etc.

Johnny, you have been given some very sensible advice by 1ke and Church Militant.

Anyway, how do you know that Abe Lincoln really said what is claimed he said and even if he did say it 1. he is a human being and could have been prejudiced against the Catholic Church and 2. What evidence did he advance to prove what he said?

I think some people took me the wrong way, and if I presented myself the wrong way, I am sorry. I didn’t post my questions with the assumption that the Catholic Church was wrong, I was simply posting earnest questions that I figured could be answered very easily. I was looking for sources of information and arguments to be used against this kind of propaganda.

The Jesuits have their fame alright.

But I’ll dear say a risky thing.

Slavery was not the main issue of the war.

It was the industrialist and atheist North wanting to root out the last roots of tradition and aristocracy. Above all the Catholic presence.

The same happend in WWII. The two nukes were sent to the two most Catholic cities of Japan.

Shall I continue the examples?

I agree. Lincoln ran for presidency multiple times on a moral platform against slavery and lost those earlier elections. It was only after the south’s rising as a real economic and political threat to the industrial north and the South’s independent coziness with the English Monarchy alarmed the north. Then suddenly everyone is outraged at the immorality of slavery and Lincoln’s political platform wins him an election.

I am no expert on history but I am certain that if one could follow the money it will show that northern bankers, financiers and big industrial money worked its way into the presidential election process and bought votes. In those days there was a lot of election fraud as well and people would pay to vote a certain way in exchange for a shot of whisky and a free-lunch. Sound familiar?

The irony of the Civil War is that it was two polar opposed Protestant dominated political views of how the country should be governed (states rights vs federation. Most ironic was that Irish Catholics from the north were forced drafted and used in great numbers as shock troops in the Civil War against the south. These the northern generals has no hesitation in sending into the most risky and deadly campaigns. If one wants to get into conspiracy theories I think there is a case that could be made that Protestant leadership in the USA was not at all reluctant to opportunistically kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

I really don’t think most Catholics have a clue at just how repressed we have been and how deliberately anti-Catholic forces are continuing to try to marginalize us politically and economically as well as wash out our religious voting block through greater secularization of all of society.

Sorry to side track…

James

Ok Johnny, sorry for the misunderstanding. Here is how I handle such things. First you must have and use your God given common sense. In this case it doesn’t make common sense that this Lincoln speech pops up out of nowhere. WHERE did it come from? would be my question to these people. Funny that it is not known by the general public. Also, this doesn’t sound like something Lincoln would say. Put the burden of proof on them. You have already determined that this speech is a fake by your good common sense. I know it is a fake also.

The same happend in WWII. The two nukes were sent to the two most Catholic cities of Japan.

Really? I thought it was because they were about the only two cities left that weren’t completely destroyed. By the way, did you know that more people were killed in Tokyo by conventional bombs rather than the atom bombs on the two cities?

Johnny, I was able to find a similar speech falsely attributed to Lincoln.

“I do not pretend to be a prophet. But though not a prophet, I see a very dark cloud on our horizon. And that dark cloud is coming from Rome. It is filled with tears of blood. It will rise and increase, till its flank will be torn by a flash of lightning, followed by a fearful peal of thunder. Then a cyclone such as the world has never seen, will pass over this country, spreading ruin and desolation from north to south. After it is over, there will be long days of peace and prosperity: for Popery with its Jesuits an merciless Inquisitions, will have been forever swept away from our country. Neither I nor you, but our children, will see those things.” – This quotation, sometimes called “Lincoln’s Warning,” was written by Charles Chiniquy, who falsely attributed it to Lincoln. (See the discussion in Paul F. Boller & John George, They Never Said It, Oxford Univ. Press, 1989, pp. 79-80.)

Of course it is a fake. I could not find the speech or letter you posted except in an anti-catholic website. It is easy for these sick people to make accusations. As for the Jew haters, they have them taking over the government and the Catholic haters have us taking over the same government! The really sad thing is that there are people that actually believe this nonsense, without any proof at all.

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