Another Reformed Perspective on sin, abortion and the election

Al Mohler, the President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and outspoken Evangelical gives his thoughts on the election. He is friends with John Piper who @TULIPed linked to below. I think both make excellent points and it shows the struggle we, who believe in the traditional morality that is taught in our Christian heritage, are having in this election cycle.

Here is a paragraph from the article and a link to the article.

Let me be as clear as I know possible: President Trump’s behavior on Twitter and his divisive comments and sub-presidential behavior are an embarrassment to me. Constantly. His arrogance and ego and constant need for adulation drive me to distraction. But character is some strange combination of the personal, the principled, and the practical. Let me put it another way—I cannot accept the argument that a calm man who affirms the dismembering of babies in the womb has a superior character to a man who rants like Genghis Khan but acts to preserve that life. In my ideal world, I would vote for a candidate in whom the personal, the principled, and the practical earn my admiration. I do not live in that world. I live in this world, and I must act accordingly.

Christians, Conscience and the looming election.

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I love being from the UK and onlooking at the American election from secular and religious American sources (including these forums because lets be honest - at least 80% of people on these forums are American). I remember reading a really interesting forum not too long ago about why people view America as the ‘last bastion of Catholicism’ and that if the Democrats win, then people are saying that it’ll be the end of Catholicism (completely disregarding Brazil, Poland, Ireland, Portugal etc). I’m sure you’ve seen it yourself that one of the raging debates on these forums as of late has been “Is voting for Biden a mortal sin?”. I know a lot of YouTube channels like Fr. Mark Goring and Sensus Fidelium have been advocating that it is, were as the Vatican has weighed in and said it’s not. Where I live (Northern Ireland), at the start of 2020, our law was changed overnight that allowed for both legalised same-sex marriage and abortion, but while I was certainly unhappy over the changes (partially because it wasn’t even voted for democratically by our people), I realised that faith is in some sense separate and unrelated by these sorts of changes. Catholics will always pray, pro-choicers will always campaign for more rights, and I’ll always eat pizza on a Friday night! We can voice our opinions, but let’s not forget that before the world hated us and went against us, it hated and went against Jesus first. Being a Catholic isn’t meant to be easy.

Sorry, rant over.

Tl;dr = Keep praying!

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I’m not a prophet or the son of a prophet, but in my opinion Christians in the USA and by extension Western Europe are about to come under persecution like non seen in the west since the days of Rome. That kind of persecution already exist in China and Islamic countries, where to be a Christian could mean arrest or even death.

There is a growing anti-Christian contingent in the USA. They don’t mind people calling themselves Christian and going to church, it is believing in moral absolutes and expressing those beliefs in public that ticks people off. Pretty soon (in the next 10-20 years) I believe that expressing Christian beliefs will be considered “hate speech” and we will see people being penalized or even arrested for proclaiming the gospel of Christ. (it is already happening on a small level).

Maybe God will intervene and keep it from happening or maybe it is God’s discipline on the church, to bring us back to relying totally on Him, instead of our job, retirement plans, investments, abundance of leisure, and personal freedom that we have here in the USA (and Western Europe).

I personally don’t like Trump. But I believe that if Biden wins it will move us one step closer to an age of persecution. Either way, God’s will be done.

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It happened at a church in Sweden a year-ish ago were the priest proclaimed the CCC teaching on homosexuality and was arrested. And Churches in Denmark that don’t allow same sex marriages get fined

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One need only read the recent writings of people like Robert Reich, as well as the undercurrent of anti-Catholic/Christian thought and rhetoric to know we may already be on the threshold of this.

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You must be a very nominal lifelong Republican to not know most of what you just wrote is Democratic talking points and not truth .

Welcome to CAF

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This concerned a Pentecostal preacher, to whom the CCC would likely have little meaning. He compared homosexuality to a cancer in society and made the assertion an individual cannot be Christian and homosexual. His sentence was overturned a short time later.

When did that happen? There are confessional Lutherans and if that happened recently I’m surprised the largest council of confessional Lutherans didn’t mention it.

So sorry; I must’ve been listening to one of Denmark’s song from Eurovision :sweat_smile: .
But sorry, not in Denmark; more so various states in USA. I have some links if you want to read them.

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1057&context=njlsp

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/city-threatens-to-arrest-ministers-who-refuse-to-perform-same-sex-weddings

Thank you for the correction! I didn’t know of any of the details what was said, but I rather just generally heard that it happened

My own sense is that confessional Lutherans wouldn’t perform them.

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Probably a good idea to check the background of these things if you are going to cite them.

Yes I have been saying this for months. A Joe Biden (in actuality a Harris) presidency will mark the end of religious liberty. They are coming for our schools, hospitals, and Churches. They are coming for our children. I honestly believe that if Biden wins, within the next four years I will either be martyred or imprisoned for my religious beliefs.

For goodness sake. If that’s based on the sort of news reports Daniel27 is using which prove to be er, somewhat incorrect, or events that didn’t happen at all, I suggest you worry about more realistic issues.

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Golly, I feel more attacked than Joe Biden here :rofl:

"Small islands not capable of protecting themselves, are the proper objects for kingdoms to take under their care; but there is something very absurd, in supposing a continent to be perpetually governed by an island.”…Thomas Paine. in efforts to win over loyalists to England to revolt/split.

Hard to believe but we were once divided over whether to split/ revolt from England or remain loyal. Our church pulpits were also split. They rang out either " No king but Jesus", or “Obey those who govern over you”.

Same thing happened with slavery at first.

So nothing new under the sun today?

Read the article. I do cringe when Trump glorifies himself, like a Nebuchadnazzer on his rooftop. He did this when claiming He created the greatest economy ever earlier this year. Then Corona virus hit.

I like it it when he says “we” instead of I, and he often does.

I don’t think the article has correct historical perspective as Paines…yet for sure God hates a proud look, and such was the originator of the fall of some angels.

I believe the article is trying to appease critics of the church who support Trump, as if we condone his sin.

I don’t condone his sin. I am humbled by it . Reminds me of our faith heritage beginning only by the grace of God , thru twelve sons, who were quite “sinful”. I say to myself about Trump , “thru this man proceedeth righteousness?”…he is the least of these (potential political leaders) that I would have originally chosen in primaries, yet he has been faithful to many of the righteous causes. I am floored.

I compare Pres. Trump to Samson (Judges 13-16–a thrilling read, with a tragic but good ending!)

Samson was awful–self-centered, womanizer, overly-indulgent, braggart, rather foolish–sound familiar?

He was the LAST person that anyone would think could be used by God for good things…and yet, Samson was God’s man for the time. God used him in a mighty way, although Samson had to learn the hard way to rely on God, not himself.

God has put Donald Trump in the highest government leadership position in the United States not only for the sake of our country, but for Donald Trump’s sake and to save his soul.

In spite of incredible persecution, constant ridicule from the news media and the entertainment community, and bizarre demonstrations (remember the sickening Pussy Hat Women’s March in 2017?!), Pres. Trump has made righteous decisions to protect the unborn, the most helpless of all human beings.

Some Christians, especially Catholics, think that his policies hurt the hungry, the immigrant, the minority, etc. I urge these dissenters to examine the conservative approach more carefully, with an open mind instead of assuming that all of us simply want to live rich and let the poor die. This is so far from the truth–listen to me! You are being deceived! Conservatives believe in helping others to help themselves, not just handing them enough to keep them entrenched in poverty, crime, addiction, a dangerous country, etc. Instead of just listening to those you agree with, start listening to those that you think you disagree with.

I do this–I still read women’s magazines produced by liberals (e.g., Allure). My husband listens to NPR, which actually has a very balanced viewpoint, although it leans towards the liberal. I am involved with organizations in my city which are generally liberal-leaning (e.g., music professionals, women’s organizations, etc.). I keep quiet–I don’t get into arguments with my associates in these organizations, but I do speak up when for the unborn, and I ask questions that make my associates think more deeply.

And more importantly, I try my best to financially support organizations, especially Catholic organizations like St. Vincent’s, that provide help and hope to those in need, and our local Rescue Mission, which has been a place of recovery for addicts, and also has a shelter for women that helps them to get an education and get good jobs, and also grass roots charities like our local church-based “safe house” organization that helps young women to escape and be safe from sex traffickers.

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Perhaps if you have it at certain hours, shows. Last night was terribly leftist leaning. Was show about people buying guns. Only Interviewed people who were black afraid of whites, or gays afraid of staights, or Democrats afraid of Republicans, one person citing the presidential debate and the presidents uncivility as reason for buying his Glock (zero mention of Biden’s uncivil remaks, zero). So PBS and NPR are right up there with CNN and NBC as “progressive”… they have the “disease” in my opinion.

But thanks you for your post. Like the Sampson anology.

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