Could you link me to evidence of their methodology, i.e. where they’re getting their population sample, please? As long as the sampling of different races comes from the same population, (e.g. involved in police encounter, uninvolved, etc.), then their methodology is accurate.
I don’t know the specific methodology used here but I know the whole ‘black people are 2.5 or 3 times more likely to be killed by police’ theory, comes from the methodology I mentioned. Since it is repeated here, I would assume the same methodology is being used.
I think for the sake of fair debate, there should be a little more evidence than just assumptions.
Well do you even know the methodology used by your sources? It seems a bit presumptuous to use data from ‘police encounters’. How can that possibly be accurate? The ‘Mapping Police Violence’ website uses media articles as their evidence. Many ‘police encounters’ (whatever is meant by that) that didn’t result in an arrest may not have even been recorded anywhere and we wouldn’t know about them.
You made the original claim about their methodology, so the burden of proof is on you.
Not really? I am saying what type of methodology their conclusion seems to derive form, but I don’t believe they explain their methodology very well. Since you are using them as a source, you could explain it to me?
Then you probably shouldn’t assert the claim that they are:
Respectfully, I’m trying to get you to dig deeper and question the usual conservative talking points.
Funny, since I believe you were the one getting frustrated when people were calling for proof, or saying what you present isn’t proof or evidence of racism. Now you’re saying I shouldn’t be asserting a claim, when you have been quite happy to brand the US police force as racist with no real evidence.
I actually never called them racist. That’s you misrepresenting me. I said that racism is a reasonable hypothesis. A hypothesis is not a claim.
Rather than sparring with me, you could have been investigating your claim. It takes about 30 seconds on mappingpoliceviolence.org to come up with this:
This information has been meticulously sourced from the three largest, most comprehensive and impartial crowdsourced databases on police killings in the country: FatalEncounters.org, the U.S. Police Shootings Database and KilledbyPolice.net.
We’ve also done extensive original research to further improve the quality and completeness of the data; searching social media, obituaries, criminal records databases, police reports and other sources to identify the race of 90 percent of all victims in the database.
Unless you can prove that the police are randomly shooting innocent white people, there is no basis for your claim that the sample includes white people who didn’t “get into trouble.”
If there is a topic that you are curious about, I would suggest specifically asking Polak’s opinion, as he did with blackforest, rather than jumping to conclusions.
Oh please, don’t give me the ‘conservative talking points’ line. I could just as easily accuse you of going with right-wing talking points.
Not randomly in the sense they are seeking out white people to kill for no reason, but yes they have shot innocent white people. Can you prove they are randomly shooting innocent black people for absolutely no reason whatsoever?
Yes ‘Mapping Police Violence’ (sound like a neutral website to you? ) name their sources as meticulous. of course they do. Give me a break. Their ‘meticulous sources’ simply go through media stories. That’s their proof.
I have already made my argument about this in a different thread and don’t feel like going over it again. My sources there were the Washington Post database on police shootings and the FBI website. Those two together showed there was no disproportionate killing of black people by the police.
What?? I never made that claim.
You’re claiming that the data includes white people who didn’t “get in trouble.” The database is right there on the website. Can you point me to cases where this is true? https://policeviolencereport.org/
Editing to add that they did gather data from police reports and body cams. Or are these sources not “objective” enough for you?
Yes, in none of the cases I’ve seen has there been a clear racial component. What emerges is overzealous tactics or incompetence tipped a situation into serious harm. I think there is room for broad police reform, but we also should retain perspective.
There were just over 10,300,000 arrests in 2018, which was a low year in the USA. This breaks down to a daily number of just over 28 thousand arrests.
The number of arrests that cause death or serious harm like the OP are the rare exception, perhaps one in twenty thousand. I think I’m being generous with this since we have a handful of stories, not 500+ a year. I’m not including arrests where the person is armed and combating the police.
This equates to 5 deaths per 100k arrests. For comparison, you have twice the odds (10/100k) of committing suicide.
I think we need police reforms, which can reduce the number of these senseless deaths. However, we should to not lose our perspective. 99.995% of arrests do not end up with a headline like the OP.
You know what blackforest, I think it is time for me to call it a day with the discussion on this topic with you. I can see you are on a mission to find any arguments to suit your hypothesis that the police force is racist. You’re mind is made up and I don’t think anything I say or any stats I present will change it.
I am not arguing there is definitely no racism in the police, in fact I suspect there is, but I don’t see any serious evidence to suggest the police are racist in general.
Have a good day.
I’m not going to start a whole new thread on this story here, could some be gossip? But it is interesting, I believe I did hear about this prior. The shooting outside a bar I believe. Very on-topic. Too bad anyone would think in a way Gardner is alleged to think.
That Gardner was raised by racist parents and still expresses some of those views doesn’t strip him of his second amendment rights, or right to self defense.
One person jumped him from behind, trying to take his gun. I doubt Gardner knew the reason he was attacked, if it matters.
Then another person immediately jumped him. This person was shot after he tackled Gardner.
There was no need to look through Gardner’s life history to asses what crimes were committed and who is at fault.
I read about this when it happened but the facts were unclear then.
I don’t want to see the board have every story on racism…so, here is a shocking story that happened in Milwaukee. Difficult to discern what the story here may be.
This is almost too graphic to post, pardon to the moderators. How could any firefighters have done something like this??
Fire chief: 12 firefighters face internal charges over hanging fetus doll
Two firefighters have retired during investigation
One dozen Milwaukee firefighters are in trouble for a hanging fetus doll found at a firehouse.
That fetus doll was hung on a bulletin board in February inside the fire station at James Lovell and Wells Street. The fire chief said it was a shameful mistake.
A firefighter at Milwaukee’s Station 2 at the department’s headquarters downtown, admitted he hung the black fetus doll with a pink ribbon around its neck.
I hope we can find out what the motive was here.
Just read that the cops were fired because they found a picture of them apparently mocking his death
It’s sad that that’s what it took, but I’m glad it finally happened.
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