No but if one is to make an intelligent argument or point about or against something one should know the factual points of such. “You see, I don’t like wood carvers because they actually use marshmallows to carve the wood.” A wood carver would know my statement is silly. If one argues or criticizes against something they know little about they come across as foolish… as many atheists do when speaking about Christianity.
I run across them all the time.
It doesn’t really affect me since I know my own intellectual ability.
It goes in one ear and out the other.
I’ve got more important things to worry about.
None of this is anything new BTW. I don’t appreciate wordy posts but I think the following two excerpts are relevant here and worth reading. In the first Paul addresses some of these concerns in 1 Cor 1:
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.
Brothers, consider the time of your calling: Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly and despised things of the world, and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast in His presence.
It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”
For the second excerpt I’ve cited “An Historical View of The Council of Nice” by Isaac Boyle where he quotes Eusebius of Caesarea, a 4th century bishop and church historian. Eusebius’ most famous and influential work is his “Ecclesiastical History”, well worth reading. He writes here regarding some of the happenings outside of the Council of Nicaea which convened in 325:
continued from previous post, Eusebius of Caesarea:
Before the opening of the council, some who are experienced in the practice of disputation began to agitate questions of theology. A layman of good sense, who had the courage to confess the name of Christ, in a time of persecution, perceiving that many were attracted by the force and elegance of their discourses, undertook to rebuke them by remarking that neither our Lord nor his apostles have taught us the rules of logic, or idle subtleties, but the truth, which is preserved by faith and good works. All who were present listened to him with admiration, and approved of what he had said. The speakers themselves became more moderate in consequence: and the noise and clamor excited by their animated declamation were no longer heard.
It is also related that certain heathen philosophers were anxious to take a part in the dispute, some of them wishing to be made acquainted with the doctrines of the gospel, and others, to whom the Christians were obnoxious, on account of the decaying credit of their own religion, desiring to create a misunderstanding, and to foment divisions among them. One of these “seekers after wisdom”, in the vain confidence of his imagined eloquence, assuming an insolent matter, endeavored to turn the priests into ridicule. But a plain and illiterate old man, one of those who had been distinguished as confessors, was unable to bear his arrogance, and, although unversed in the rules of logic and the art of disputation, ventured to accost him. This excited the laughter of some inconsiderate persons, to whom he was known, but alarmed the more reflecting, who apprehended that he might expose himself in so unequal a contest. Their respect for his character, however, prevented any attempt to hinder him from speaking.
“Listen”, he said, “philosopher, in the name of Jesus. There is one God, the creator of heaven and Earth, and of all things visible and invisible, who has performed all this by the power of his Word, and established it by the holiness of his Spirit. The Word, which we call the son of God, pitying the errors of men and their brutish way of life, condescended to be born of a woman, to sojourn among them, and to die for their salvation. He will come again to judge the actions of everyone in this life. We believe, in the simplicity of our hearts, that this is the truth. Do not then fruitlessly trouble yourself, in seeking arguments against these things, or in attempting to discover the mode in which they may be, or not. But if you believe, only tell me so.”
The philosopher, not a little astonished at this unexpected address, answered, I believe; and, thanking the old man for having vanquished him, recommended it to those with whom he had formerly agreed in sentiment, to follow his example, solemnly declaring that the change which he had experienced was the effect of divine power, and that he felt himself inexplicably impelled to embrace the faith of Christ.
No, actually they are just reproducing what Pierre Onfray and Richard Dawkins and somehow Umberto Ecco has said. If you are bored and want an argument call them on that, the fact they are reproducing ideas and they have no moral superiority to call anyone who prefers reproducing ideas from the Bible “stupid” without being subjected to the adjective themselves. But it will.not end well. Sometimes people want to feel smart and they end up being the opposite, at least in appearance. The stronger the feeling to want to be smart the lamer the result.
And if an atheist keeps on drumming the same argument over and over then it really is time to move along.
Oh, and never discuss about God while drunk. Neither party is convincing in that segment even if God Himself is working hard to get both the believer and the atheist safe back in your beds.
They are fools blinded by their hubris. They aren’t worth your time. Simple as that.
The Southern Hemisphere excluding Australia and New Zealand.
In my experience, atheists don’t seem to understand how to interpret the Bible and how doctrine is arrived at.
And many think they’re experts when they’re not. They take what are obviously parables and make them into literal descriptions and take verses out of context. All one has to do is read more than little clipping and one will see the actual context.
Thats quite a variety of religions.
It wasn’t what I had in mind.
Genesis isn’t a parable. Parts are allegorical.
So is there some where that says this isnt meant to be taken literally? Lots of people including catholics think geneis described what actually happened and they think noah built a boat and there was a flood and were all descended from adam and eve.
Many of the Early Church Fathers didn’t hold the belief the Earth was created in six 24 hour days. We also know parts of Genesis is supposed to be read allegorically based on commentaries from the early centuries of Christianity.
The Bible was never meant to be read with a blank slate as many atheists wrongly do.
Catholics can speak for themselves on the other points. I’m not going to speak for them.
Athiests don’t usually claim human beings know it all. To the contrary, actually.
I dont think that any atheists think that there was a flood or God made all the animals in a few days just as they are. But lots of christians and many Catholics think that.
But that’s what atheists tell Christians they should believe among other things as if we should make atheists the authority of what Christians believe.
And yes, there are many Christians who do believe in a 144 hour creation period. But they are free to believe that.
Why would an atheist tell christians to believe in some thing that they dont believe themselves. That doesnt make sense.
Ask them not me.
How do you know that?
I dont mean it makes no sense for them to tell christians what to believe (although it doesnt make any sense). I mean it makes no sense for you to say that. What atheists do you know that do that??