Answering to modern "heresies"


#1

Hi!

Please help me to argument against this writings by Mr. Desroche (it was in French):

  • The message in the New Testament is found in texts older than the New Testament.
  • He quotes and base a lot of what he writes on books of Alvin Boyd Kuln (Lost Light: An Interpretation of Ancient Scripture). It says that the Gospel teachings are faithful to “such saviours as Dionysius, Osiris, Horus, Tammuz, Adonis, Atys, Orpheus, Mithras, Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha, Hercules… even Platon and Pythagore”.
  • He also use the book: the pagan Christ (Tom Harpur) as one inspiration for what he writes.
  • John comes from Alexandria, a place where there was a huge library of more than 500 000 books. John knew Egyptian writings. “He only had to add one historical character and place it in a Jewish historical context for his Gospel”
  • He says that Egyptian myths see one divine presence in human beings; he links Horus and Jesus; the name Iusu or Iusa was found on tombs of many of their dead.
  • The origin of a “messiah” (a character of the type of a messiah or something) can be found in writing 3 500 before Jesus-Christ.
  • Since the last 40 years, the excavations done in the Holy Land doesn’t confirm the biblical texts. He says we can read: "the Bible unearthed, Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman (Touchstone, 2002) and Excavating Jesus, John Dominic Crossan and Jonathan L. Reed (Harper, 2001).
  • Then he says Christmas is a myth. He asking what we think: is the birth of Jesus-Christ a myth or one historical fact? and he doesn’t want to hear what the Church says but what we think.
  • To doubt is natural and necessary in our spiritual life (he destroy what the Bible truly is and the Holy Catholic Church). But in other places he makes parallel of the Gospel teachings with other teachings, and tells the Gospel is profound.
  • At the beginning there was two sides in the Christian community: the Roman Catholics who believed in the sacred writings as historical, the other as if one allegory. The first group named itself Roman Catholics since the fourth century after the Concil of Nicea. They selected the Gospels in circulation. They added the resurrection to Marc and the three others were corrected.
  • there’s apparently 2 000 letters of people that witnessed to the resurrection, but only 2% of the people could read and write at that time. The four Gospel containt the Egyptian thoughts and some of their words.
  • Wouldn’t all the Gospels be thoughts of different groups?
  • Why the Christian authority (religious people) burnt and destroyed books and controled the human thinkings until Vatican II? The Spanish priests during the 16th century destroyed the writings and documents that wasn’t according to their beliefs.
  • Gerald Massey in his book: the Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Mysteries of Amenta says that the Egyptian book of the dead “is the pre-christian word of God” and is dedicated to Râ “as the inspiring holy spirit”.
  • For them stars are spirits, St Paul has the same belief.
  • He compares the resurrection believed by the Egyptian and the Catholics. He says that knowledge was the key to attain the resurrection, a child died in its body. The Catholics have created the Limbo for children. After death, the “mature” soul would go to a place called Amanta to be purified. Egyptian didn’t believe in the resurrection of the body.
  • They had a judgment day when the soul of a person was judged according to its acts on the earth. The word of Râ was the “resurrection and the life” (p. 5 of the previous book, I assume). It is similar to what St Paul says when he says that only faith in Jesus Christ can save. St James preached good acts and faith. The group of St Paul and St James always disagreed. St James died in the hands of the group of St Paul. This information is found in the book of Robert Eisenman, James the BROTHER OF JESUS. (to be continued in my next post)

#2
  • He then quotes again the Lost Light, Alvin Boyd Kuhn (page 7). The old egyptians considered that the birth of human beings was in the zodiaque (or house) of the Virgin, and the spiritual birth in the house of the Fish. The house of the Virgin is also the house of Bread… and so on, if you know these books, please just argument against it as a whole.

  • The Inquisition.

  • He quotes the book of Gerald Massey: Ancient Egypt, the Light of the World.

  • He compares still again Christ, Bouddha and Horus (“we need to nourish the divine seed to arrive to the supreme state”). He speaks about the book: living Buddha, living Christ. The concept is found in the Gospel of Thomas. It says we need to become “twins of Jesus from a spiritual point of view”.

  • Abraham went to Egypt… He comes back with a knowledge of the egyptian monotheism. It’s not Abraham that influenced Pharao, it is the opposite. He quotes the Genesis 12: 12-15. He asks: "Wouldn’t Moses be the descendant of this union with the Pharao and would he be of royal blood? it would explaint he long stay of Abraham and his family in Egypt. He then summarize what monotheism was all about in the time of Akenaton. The psalm 104 is almost word for word one of his prayer.

  • books: The Rock Tombs of El Amarna - Part II (London: The Egyptian Exploration fund), G. Davies.
    Egyptian Religion (Ithica, N. Y.; Cornell University Press), author: Seigfried Morenz.
    The Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead (London: British Museum Press, 1985).

Thanks for helping in anyways. I tried to shorten it, but it I couldn’t shorten it anymore. If you have any questions, don’t hesitate.

Love,
Annick


#3

Hi Annick!

Wow, that is a lot of stuff. I can’t answer in detail about all of it, but would like to make a few points.

First of all, the citation of a book by John Dominic Crossan. He is a member of a group called the Jesus Seminar. They are a group of scholars, a radical minority, who have marketed themselves as mainstream scholars. They try to say that Jesus was just a nice guy, a traveling sage, who got crucified (Crossan says that Jesus’s body was buried in a shallow grave and eaten by dogs) much to his suprise, and that would have been the end of it except for some of his followers getting out of control and making up stuff about him being God and rising from the dead. This is nonsens of course, and there are good books available refuting their work–I would recommend Philip Jenkins book Hidden Gospels: How the Search for Jesus Lost Its Way for one. The reference to the Gospel of Thomas is related to this–and Jenkins’s book does a good job of refuting the current fad of trying to find alternative Christianities. If you have specific questions I will try to answer those. A few years ago I did a lot of reading on the Jesus Seminar.

Second, on all of the Egyptian stuff. I am not an expert on ancient Egypt, but it sounds pretty fishy to me. It is typical of anti-Catholics to try to find origins of Catholicism in ancient religions–the fundamentalists like to harp on Babylon, for example. I wouldn’t take any of this stuff seriously.

I am sure there are smarter people out there who can provide more answers than I can.


#4

[quote=AmandaCatherine]Hi Annick!

Wow, that is a lot of stuff. I can’t answer in detail about all of it, but would like to make a few points.

First of all, the citation of a book by John Dominic Crossan. He is a member of a group called the Jesus Seminar. They are a group of scholars, a radical minority, who have marketed themselves as mainstream scholars. They try to say that Jesus was just a nice guy, a traveling sage, who got crucified (Crossan says that Jesus’s body was buried in a shallow grave and eaten by dogs) much to his suprise, and that would have been the end of it except for some of his followers getting out of control and making up stuff about him being God and rising from the dead. This is nonsens of course, and there are good books available refuting their work–I would recommend Philip Jenkins book Hidden Gospels: How the Search for Jesus Lost Its Way for one. The reference to the Gospel of Thomas is related to this–and Jenkins’s book does a good job of refuting the current fad of trying to find alternative Christianities. If you have specific questions I will try to answer those. A few years ago I did a lot of reading on the Jesus Seminar.

Second, on all of the Egyptian stuff. I am not an expert on ancient Egypt, but it sounds pretty fishy to me. It is typical of anti-Catholics to try to find origins of Catholicism in ancient religions–the fundamentalists like to harp on Babylon, for example. I wouldn’t take any of this stuff seriously.

I am sure there are smarter people out there who can provide more answers than I can.
[/quote]

Read “Chariots of the Gods” by Eric Van Dannikin. This is a book which “proves” the earth was populated by “ancient astronauts.”

It’s an almost text-book example of how you can take half-truths, speculation and distortions, and weave them together into a bewildering tapistry so complex that debunking it takes more time that it’s worth.


#5

I just finished reading “Call to Action or Call to Apostasy?” put out by Human Life International. Great source for understanding some of the modern heresies.

st julie


#6

Thanks!

If anyone else know where I can find infos or can give some infos to help me to refute what he writes, please do. It will be my pleasure to write a letter to the editor.

With Love,
Annick


#7

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