Answering Uracan's allegation against Pope Pius


#1

From everything that I have read Pope Pious saves close to a Million Jews during the Holocaust,and in another thread Uracan made the slanderous allegation:mad:{" I don’t know that Hitler necessarily had a profound hatred of the Catholic Church. My guess is that didn’t give a damn about the church except to the extent that the church would not interfere with his crimes, and of course, that’s just what Pope Pious did—not interfere with Hitler. However, as the leader of the Catholic Church he should have taken a strong and unequivocal stand against Hitler. He did not and instead entered into an agreement with Hitler that allowed Hitler to proceed with his ambitions."}:banghead: Well would anyone like to respond?


#2

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]From everything that I have read Pope Pious saves close to a Million Jews during the Holocaust,and in another thread Uracan made the slanderous allegation:mad:{" I don’t know that Hitler necessarily had a profound hatred of the Catholic Church. My guess is that didn’t give a damn about the church except to the extent that the church would not interfere with his crimes, and of course, that’s just what Pope Pious did—not interfere with Hitler. However, as the leader of the Catholic Church he should have taken a strong and unequivocal stand against Hitler. He did not and instead entered into an agreement with Hitler that allowed Hitler to proceed with his ambitions."}:banghead: Well would anyone like to respond?
[/quote]

The Jews honored the pope for saving millions of Jews during the war.


#3

There is a tract about this on the Catholic Answers website which I found very informative and well researched. I think it will answer Uracan’s allegation. The exact link is: catholicanswers.net/library/HOW_Pius_XII_PROTECTED_JEWS.asp

–Joruus


#4

Thankyou both for your response I tried to get Uracans"sources" for the accusation and she will not answer.I will go to the link to refute this wi th more authority.God Bless


#5

And to help alleviate the inevitable “bias” charge, here is an article from a Jewish site: A Question of Judgment: Pius XII & the Jews

Dr. Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, wrote in his letter of condolence on Pope Pius’ death: “With special gratitude we remember all he has done for the persecuted Jews during one of the darkest periods in their entire history.” In 1945, the Congress had made a gift of $20,000 to Vatican charities in recognition of the work of the Holy See in rescuing Jews from Fascist persecution; and an interoffice memorandum, written a year earlier by a WJC official closely involved in the Congress’ pleas to Pius XII for help for the Jews of Poland, reads: “The Catholic Church in Europe has been extraordinarily helpful to us in a multitude of ways. From Hinsley in London to Pacelli in Rome, to say nothing of the anonymous priests in Holland, France, and elsewhere, they have done very notable things for us . . . .”


#6

And while we are at it here is a review from a (as far as I know) non-Catholic for the movie adaptation of the 1964 play The Deputy which is the original source for much of this calumny: Amen (Der Stellvertreter)

A criminal lunatic takes a family hostage and begins murdering them one by one. As the police close in, a kindly neighbor creeps into the house under the kidnapper’s gun and manages to spirit two of the family’s children out and to safety. After the siege is over and the killer and the rest of the family are all dead, a former associate of the perp in one of his criminal enterprises comes forward with a stinging indictment of — the kindly neighbor! Instead of quietly saving those two lives, this person says, the neighbor should have become a moral popinjay, preening himself and making a public parade of his firm disapproval of murder and kidnapping, so incurring, if possible, a pointless martyrdom. Not to have done so amounted to complicity in the crime.

If this argument makes sense to you, you are probably Rolf Hochhuth, the former Hitler Youth whose play, The Deputy (Der Stellvertreter), was the sensation of Broadway in 1964 when it made much the same argument about Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust. In the intervening decades, this bit of anti-Catholic mythology has been lovingly tended and nurtured by the likes of Garry Wills, John Cornwell and Daniel Goldhagen, but Costa-Gavras, that reliable propagandist for every fashionable left-wing cause, and his co-scenarist, Jean-Claude Grumberg, have gone back to Hochhuth’s play for the foundation of their new film, Amen.


#7

I’m not aware of the other thread you speak of, but I would agree that it’s unlikely that Hitler had a profound hatred for the Catholic Church. The part of Germany that is most Catholic is Bavaria and other parts of southern Germany. This area also coincided with a more rural, traditional lifestyle among much of the population - think Oktoberfest. The traditional German lifestyle, especially family values and so forth, was highly valued by Nazi ideology, and many of these values were and are also esteemed by the Church. Hitler may thus have considered the Church a natural ally to Nazism.

If so, it probably really chapped his hide that Catholic parishoners, clergy, and the institution as a whole were making nuisances of themselves interfering with Nazi actions. However, had Hitler truly hated the Church, he would have mobilized his propaganda machine against it in a big way, and done more than send a number of clerics to the concentration camps. Fortunately, he didn’t really crack down hard, and the Church was able to continue to play a positive role in resisting the abomination of the Nazi state.


#8

It is worth noting that from WWII until 1973, Pius XII was universally praised for his efforts on behalf of the Jews. The New York times ran an editorial praising him as a lonely voice against Nazism. The chief Rabbi of Rome was particularly thankful to the pope for his efforts on behalf of his people, and ended up converting to Catholicism. It was only beginning with Rolf Hochhuth’s play in 1973 that history began to be re-written to paint him as a bad guy.

During the war, Hitler exhibited a fierce retaliation when German Catholic bishops spoke openly against him, sending even more people to the gas chambers as a result. Jewish leaders begged the bishops to work quietly behind the scenes–in order to save lives.


#9

Digitonomy, this is the thread

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=42427&page=2
Thankyou for all of your help


#10

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]From everything that I have read Pope Pious saves close to a Million Jews during the Holocaust,and in another thread Uracan made the slanderous allegation:mad:{" I don’t know that Hitler necessarily had a profound hatred of the Catholic Church. My guess is that didn’t give a damn about the church except to the extent that the church would not interfere with his crimes, and of course, that’s just what Pope Pious did—not interfere with Hitler. However, as the leader of the Catholic Church he should have taken a strong and unequivocal stand against Hitler. He did not and instead entered into an agreement with Hitler that allowed Hitler to proceed with his ambitions."}:banghead: Well would anyone like to respond?
[/quote]

b.s.


#11

[quote=antiaphrodite]b.s.
[/quote]

:mad: AGREED:banghead:


#12

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