A Sabbatarian friend of mine are discussing Church history, and he has provided me with a tract from his denomination that can be found at: giveshare.org/churchhistory/johnogwyn.html
. I am attempting to provide him with a rebuttal, but I am frankly at loss as to where to start. Any suggestions or hints in the right direction would be of utmost help to me. Thanks.
Your friend is dragging out the same arguments from old. “*the Catholic church is not really what Church is supposed to look like, nor is “Church” a human organization but a divine one” and the whole world went apostate from…"
*Same old same old… I was bored after reading the first paragraph. Actually, I became a little perturbed. You see, these are not new lies, just old ones being recycled. And they think that 2000 years (actually 1,952 years) we were just screwed up and suddenly THEY got it???
Where do we start? I would start by asking him for PROOF of the apostacy of the faithful. It talks about how we’re in the 3rd age, where is the proof that there are 2 other ages. Where is the proof that Tradition is wrong? catholic.com/library/scripture_tradition.asp
If he starts to throw up the “they are just wrong” or “well, you can’t believe anything Ignatius or… say, they were wanting to [make peace, keep safe, …]” then he really isn’t interested in hearing what you have to say. He is just trying to convert you and I always tell people like that, “We believe in the Same Christ, you should be converting the unsaved, the unbelievers not me. Try focusing your energies on them.” I say that because no matter what you say, they aren’t going to listen for a long time. I will continue to tell them the truth…
There is of course, one other question you can ask him about before you hang in the towel. It is the question of authority. Where does he get his authority? Does it truly come from a guy who had it revealed to him in the 50’s?
Write back more. If your friend is truly open, he will listen, if not, shake the dust and tell him you have faith in a 2000 year old church, not one 30 years old.
One of the things that always amazes me (and I did it too!) is how we will justify our faiths to fit our beliefs.
If your friend is truly willing to listen, take him slowly through the Apostolic tradition and truth, walk him through the Bible and how it wasn’t lost because Christ wouldn’t let it be lost. And it wasn’t by a few who believed “some” way, but by those who gave their lives for it (the Martyrs and Saints).
If you want more instruction here, keep writing, and we’ll help.
Oh, here is another post that talks about this same info also: