anti-Catholic facebook post by ds2


#1

ugh! simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

anyone want to help me refute/deal with this?


#2

I hate to tell you this but what ds2 wrote is somewhat correct. No one knows when Jesus was really born. Some speculate it was in the spring because of the mention of a lamb at the birth. And yes, we celebrate Christmas on the same day as a pagan holiday. The Cult of Mithras, a pagan cult, celebrated the birthdate of their god on Dec 25 as well. Historians believe that Dec 25 was chosen to celebrate the birth of Jesus in order to take the focus off of the pagan holiday and that sounds like a good idea to me.

Also, a lot of Christian symbols that we use today were taken from pagan religions. The Christmas tree was taken from a pagan holiday. BUT, it is a positive thing that Christians have adopted these symbols and dates. THe thought was that they wanted to win the pagans over to the Christian religion and they would have a better chance of winning them over if they were allowed to bring some traditions with them. I think it was a great idea and those before us were brilliant. And also, keep in mind, that just because items were used in pagan rituals doesn't make them bad, they are not bad or evil they are good because Christians (yes, ALL Christians, not just Catholics) have changed their meaning over time so that pagan is not associated with them.

So, do a little research, keep and open mind and you will be very surprised about what you learn about Christian traditions and symbols. Research the origins of the cross. There is a lot of controversy around that one too.

Btw, the correct title of your thread should ahve been "anti-Christian post" because the things written in that post are used in all Christian churches not just Catholic. It's sometimes easy to get confused about that though. And I do understand this is a Catholic forum but Protestants are all bad. :)


#3

Wow, whoever put this website together could certainly give Scrooge a run for his money.

I can't respond to every incorrect fact, or misrepresentation in that website, but here are a couple thoughts and information.

One: Almost every religion or creed of people has had some sort of winter holiday, be it Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Winter Solstice etc. While it is unlikely that Christ was born on exactly December 25th, does it really matter when we celebrate his birth as long as we celebrate it. One that note he probably wasn't baptized in January either, but that is when we celebrate it. Moving Christmas to December 25th was probably an attempt to Christianize a pagan festival, my answer to that is so what. You don't think Kwanzaa was invented to capitalize off Christmas.....come on it's great marketing, and the early Christians were trying to win converts.

Two: The origin of the Christmas tree comes from Germany, not pagan druids. The legend has it that Martin Luther actually invented the concept of bringing in a pine tree and decorating it with Christian emblems as Christmas tree.

Three: My response to people who post these types of things in general is this: You can link just about any one thing to another with enough effort. Sure Romans had a weird holiday in December, doesn't mean it was the foundation of Christmas. Christ's birth is the reason we celebrate, if he had not been born we might still be celebrating weird Holidays today. Mistletoe is poisonous but our tradition is not to eat it but to kiss a loved one under it. Presents are given to loved ones in honor of the gifts of the Magi. You can link any good tradition or practice to something bad if you try hard enough. As to this websites assertion about Jewish persecution.......yes it happened, and yes in the middle ages it was condoned by many Christian denominations. We certainly don't do it now, and I dare them to find one religion that does not have things that were done by it's adherents presently or in the past that were awful in any sense of the terms.

Christmas is a time for family, faith and fellowship, regardless of what some stupid website claims. Even if everything that website said is true..(Which it certainly has many errors on it).....God uses and has used Christmas for his own good work for a long time now.....so who has the last laugh in the end.......We Christians who know the truth, or this poor angry humbug with his false and exaggerated website.

Your best response is to tell ds2 that you are sorry he has fallen for this websites baloney and just because an internet source has a bibliography doesn't make it accurate and you refuse to waste any more time or brain cells on this silliness.


#4

I know about how some of the traditions were brought over from previous beliefs, etc, but the anti-Catholic and anti-Christian parts are what I need to research and refute. Um, did the Pope really overfeed Jews and send them running through the streets to be made fun of, etc?


#5

thank you, Alix1912 -- very helpful.


#6

A re-post from: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=403281

Letter from Jesus about Christmas --

It has come to my attention that many of you are upset that folks are taking My name out of the season.

How I personally feel about this celebration can probably be most easily understood by those of you who have been blessed with children of your own. I don't care what you call the day. If you want to celebrate My birth, just GET ALONG AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

Now, having said that let Me go on. If it bothers you that the town in which you live doesn't allow a scene depicting My birth, then just get rid of a couple of Santa’s and snowmen and put in a small Nativity scene on your own front lawn If all My followers did that there wouldn't be any need for such a scene on the town square because there would be many of them all around town.

Stop worrying about the fact that people are calling the tree a holiday tree, instead of a Christmas tree. It was I who made all trees. You can remember Me anytime you see any tree. Decorate a grape vine if you wish: I actually spoke of that one in a teaching, explaining who I am in relation to you and what each of our tasks were. If you have forgotten that one, look up John 15: 1 - 8.

If you want to give Me a present in remembrance of My birth here is my wish list. Choose something from it:

  1. Instead of writing protest letters objecting to the way My birthday is being celebrated, write letters of love and hope to soldiers away from home. They are terribly afraid and lonely this time of year. I know, they tell Me all the time.

  2. Visit someone in a nursing home. You don't have to know them personally. They just need to know that someone cares about them.

  3. Instead of writing the President complaining about the wording on the cards his staff sent out this year, why don't you write and tell him that you'll be praying for him and his family this year. Then follow up... It will be nice hearing from you again.

  4. Instead of giving your children a lot of gifts you can't afford and they don't need, spend time with them. Tell them the story of My birth, and why I came to live with you down here. Hold them in your arms and remind them that I love them.

5 Pick someone that has hurt you in the past and forgive him or her.

  1. Did you know that someone in your town will attempt to take their own life this season because they feel so alone and hopeless? Since you don't know who that person is, try giving everyone you meet a warm smile; it could make the difference.

  2. Instead of nit picking about what the retailer in your town calls the holiday, be patient with the people who work there. Give them a warm smile and a kind word. Even if they aren't allowed to wish you a "Merry Christmas" that doesn't keep you from wishing them one. Then stop shopping there on Sunday. If the store didn't make so much money on that day they'd close and let their employees spend the day at home with their families

  3. If you really want to make a difference, support a missionary-- especially one who takes My love and Good News to those who have never heard My name.

  4. Here's a good one. There are individuals and whole families in your town who not only will have no "Christmas" tree, but neither will they have any presents to give or receive. If you don't know them, buy some food and a few gifts and give them to the Salvation Army or some other charity which believes in Me and they will make the delivery for you.

  5. Finally, if you want to make a statement about your belief in and loyalty to Me, then behave like a Christian. Don't do things in secret that you wouldn't do in My presence. Let people know by your actions that you are one of mine.

Don't forget; I am God and can take care of Myself. Just love Me and do what I have told you to do. I'll take care of all the rest. Check out the list above and get to work; time is short. I'll help you, but the ball is now in your court. And do have a most blessed Christmas with all those whom you love and remember :

I LOVE YOU,

JESUS,2


#7

every single day and season has been created by God. and every single natural material-- shells, sticks, stones, leaves, moss and flowers. and every single day has, at one time or another been appropriated to the service of some untruth. and every single natural mateiral has been used in some pagan ritual or even, to some intentionally evil ritual purpose.

yet God has made all of these.

the Christian is free-- no the Christian is obligated-- to reclaim all of God's creation-- days, seasons, matter etc-- back to the purpose of giving glory to HIM.

the only thing of all that piece concerns me is whether or not there's truth to the misuse of Chritmas (especially by any pope) to the purpose of insulting and abusing human dignity. i don't know. even if it were sadly true, it indicts only the participants-- not any authentic celebration of the Savior's birth.

and finally, the Hitlerday analogy is simply asinine. what is the point? throw in a little hitler and that says it all, right?

garden variety ax grinding. not even very good, nor very smart, nor very reasonable gareden variety ax grinding.


#8

Hiyas:)

You might ask your friend if he/she is Jewish.
These are clearly Jewish thoughts expressed on this page.

As always, just my thoughts


#9

[quote="Alix1912, post:3, topic:178609"]

Your best response is to tell ds2 that you are sorry he has fallen for this websites baloney and just because an internet source has a bibliography doesn't make it accurate and you refuse to waste any more time or brain cells on this silliness.

[/quote]

I agree with this the fruit of that site is hatred against Christians period. Sad people
have to try to degrade others in such a way to build theirself up.

My advise is just move on leave it in the past!:rolleyes:


#10

Yes, it's from the Judaism online site.

Interestingly enough, the canard is attributed to a Jewish author of a book about how the Popes contributed to the 'rise of modern anti-semitism.'

Even the reglious tolerance website mentions it only as "as noted on the "judaism online' website.' No sign of it being reported otherwise.

Since it's reported as being an 18th and 19th century 'sport' one would think there would be corroboration but there doesn't seem to be. Probably the author would state it's because we're all antisemites and would 'cover it up'. . .but then again, stretching a few facts here and then if the end justifies the means seems to be the way a lot of people play, and it is certainly not a practice limited to any individual religion. . .


#11

[quote="kimmielittle, post:6, topic:178609"]

Letter from Jesus about Christmas --

[/quote]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


#12

I dont think anyone is supposed to beleive that christ was born on december 25, thats when we celebrate his birth.


#13

[quote="kimmielittle, post:6, topic:178609"]
A re-post from: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=403281

Letter from Jesus about Christmas --

[/quote]

I second Lynxdk's :thumbsup::thumbsup:.

That is an excellent reminder of how we should be celebrating Christmas. :)


#14

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