Anti-Catholic: Harvest Bible Chapel

Gotta love the so-called “non-denominationals”, they love to target the Catholic Church, even though anyone would basic knowledge (such as a pastor) has to know that even mainstream protestants (Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, etc) share many of these beliefs with Catholics; and the Orthodox Churches share even more.

If they are not Anti-Catholic, then why is the class is titled this way? Why target the Catholic Church, and not your fellow protestants “in error”?

harvestbiblechapel.org/event.aspx?event_id=338416&site_id=10780

store.harvestbiblechapel.org/p-2916-biblical-answers-to-catholic-questions-booklet.aspx

store.harvestbiblechapel.org/p-2868-biblical-answers-to-catholic-questions.aspx

“The Protestant Dilemma” ?

I have met several non-denominational Christians who have a hard time contemplating the idea the Christianity of any kind exists outside of their own bubble. I have a close friend that I met in college who had a deeply held understanding that Martin Luther was a Bible-believing, Jesus Loves Me singing, WWJD bracelet wearing evangelical. She had virtually no understanding of what other Protestant denominations actually believed. She had been taught that all Christians were just Christians, except Catholics who were the devil. If she and others I’ve met are the standard, it wouldn’t surprise me if most of these people were only vaguely aware that the Orthodox Chruch exists at all. Obviously, not all evengelicals are like that. Many are well educated in Church history and are not as isolated. I suspect the folks that are marketing that book are not aiming for that demographic though.

One would hope that the the people who here these pastors see that they have hate, people can say well is because their ill informed, but remember Jesus said love thy neighbor as you love yourself. Their going against that.

Someone said to me yesterday, “I used to be a Lutheran, and now I’m a Christian”.

:doh2:

This particular “elder” Bill Ciofani is an ex-Catholic, there the self-proclaimed expert on Catholicism. I’d like to attend the next presentation to listen to and correct many of his misstatements.

What about it?

Both are guilty.

Have you read the book?

How so? I’ve never read “The Protestant Dilemma”, nor seen any classes based on it. However, from the reviews, the author is writing from his experience as a protestant evangelical, and not attempting to address anything more than the general foundation “protestantism”.

Ciofani class states:
[This five-week course is designed to provide **a biblical perspective for those who have questions about the beliefs and practices within Catholicism. Topics include the authority of Catholic tradition, infant baptism, grace, salvation, justification, apostolic succession, Mary, purgatory, saints, priests, the pope, confession, mass, and the sacraments. God has used this class to bring Catholics to a saving faith in Jesus, to equip new believers in how to share their faith with their Catholic friends, and to lead people from the error of religious doctrines to the simplicity of following the person of Jesus Christ.

Bill Ciofani loves God’s Word. Since he turned from his sin and embraced Christ by faith in 1990, he has passionately shared the good news of Jesus Christ with others. He serves as an Elder at Harvest Bible Chapel and leads a small group. Bill and his wife Susan make their home in the northwest suburbs of Chicago.]

Now, if a protestant group happens to have the same beliefs as Catholics on “infant baptism, grace, salvation, justification, apostolic succession, Mary, purgatory, saints, priests, the pope, confession, mass, and the sacraments”, then it is okay with Bill and doesn’t need to be lead the error of religious doctrines. Only Catholics.

A bunch of gullible church-goers who believe whatever they’re told without question.
Once they start asking questions it isn’t long until they a) leave all religion or b) become Catholic

Most of my very faithful evangelical friends who have matured have come to realize that their churches aren’t teaching the truth, or perhaps the new pastors don’t know as much scripture as they do, but they were taught that the Catholic Church is apostate, so they stop attending anywhere, stop keeping the Sabbath and raise their children unchurched. Kids are growing up agnostic/atheist. It’s really very sad.

Based on the Archbishop Fulton Sheen quote that JimR-OCDS posted this morning, ( forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=890721), I’m glad that the Harvest church is focusing on the Catholic Church. CAF has eng apologetics resources to share with them and any Catholic who needs his or her faith strengthened!

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at that one…:stuck_out_tongue:

. Topics include the authority of Catholic tradition, infant baptism, grace, salvation, justification, apostolic succession, Mary, purgatory, saints, priests, the pope, confession, mass, and the sacraments. God has used this class to bring Catholics to a saving faith in Jesus, to equip new believers in how to share their faith with their Catholic friends, and to lead people from the error of religious doctrines to the simplicity of following the person of Jesus Christ.

Bill Ciofani loves God’s Word. Since he turned from his sin and embraced Christ by faith in 1990, he has passionately shared the good news of Jesus Christ with others. He serves as an Elder at Harvest Bible Chapel and leads a small group. Bill and his wife Susan make their home in the northwest suburbs of Chicago.]

Now, if a protestant group happens to have the same beliefs as Catholics on “infant baptism, grace, salvation, justification, apostolic succession, Mary, purgatory, saints, priests, the pope, confession, mass, and the sacraments”, then it is okay with Bill and doesn’t need to be lead the error of religious doctrines. Only Catholics.

I’m saying that there are plenty of books written by Catholics shooting down the beliefs that Protestants have. In fact, the whole point is so that Catholics can bring Protestants to the “fullness of faith.” It’s no different.

But the RCC has the history, tradition, and the Bible to support it, Protestants don’t

Got it and reading it now. Excellent resource that would serve them better than Ciofani’s misinformation. They wouldn’t want me in that class because he run away weeping to find a priest and come home through confession and his class would be interrupted as they all sign up for RCIA.

Yeah, but we generally don’t hold classes designed to target anyone else and that excellent book is written in response to (as are most all Catholic apologetics) the host of individuals who are propagating these targeted “classes”, books and DVDs.

Oh, okay. nvm then.

It’s kinda comforting to know - in an ironic, train wreck sorta way, that Roman Catholics aren’t the only ones who have to listen to stuff like that.

“The Protestant Dilemma” clarifies so many things for Catholics as well.

dronald,

Honestly now, how many catholics have you met who have alienated their family be labeling them apostates and heretics? Insulted their friends by telling them that their pastor is the “whore of Babylon?” Go door to door looking for protestants who will listen to their harangue about how their apostate faith is leading them to hell?

Books like the one you cite do indeed critique logical and factual problems within evangelical protestant theology and practice, but it is generally a response to the overt militancy of evangelicals against catholics that these products are necessary in order to equip catholics to be ready for the sorts of charges we routinely encounter out there among protestant Christians. It’s not remotely isolated incidents, it’s constant!

Your point is well taken that catholics criticize protestantism too, but one cannot honestly equate the severity of the two problems.

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