Anti-Catholic Site


#1

catholicconcerns.com/

I ran across this site and couldn’t believe my eyes. Do protestants really believe they were the first Christians and that Catholics were nothing more than worshiping the sun God in Rome!

What is wrong with these people?


#2

I emailed the owner of this website and told him how wrong he was about what Catholics believe on salvation when concerning faith and works.
behindthebadge.net/apologetics/index.html#5
The man stated he is more educated on my own faith then I was and that we are justified by works alone.

I can’t believe the self-righteousness and the hardening of hearts from some people, it’s like they tell us what we believe.


#3

There is a cuttingedge ministry that is just as bad,they will also make it appear to be Catholic until you enter:eek: What kills me is they feel like being deceptive is okay:nope:


#4

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]There is a cuttingedge ministry that is just as bad,they will also make it appear to be Catholic until you enter:eek: What kills me is they feel like being deceptive is okay:nope:
[/quote]

Apparently there is a nun who converted out of the Catholic Church, who is now defying the church’s teachings from a historical perspective and of course how the Catholic Church doesn’t practice biblical doctrines. History can be interpretted from many different views, and I read the first preface and one of the chapters and I couldn’t believe the spins.

I really wish people like this would go up against a Scott Hahn and find out how bad they are mislead… If you don’t want to practice the Catholic faith… that is fine… but what bothers me is the people that talk down upon it and claim that they hope we find the truth.


#5

All I can say is pray for them…they’ll be enlightened when the times comes, and we can stick out tongues out and say “I told you so:)” well…maybe we won’t do THAT, but anyway…

In Him,
Britty


#6

My favorite part of this whole site is #4 on the book list:

  1. Another Side of Catholicism
    For Catholics & potential Catholic converts

  2. Catholicism Unveiled
    For Protestants

  3. The Catholic Undertow
    For former Catholics

  4. Unmasking Catholicism
    **A longer book for serious readers :nerd: **

(Warning: if you do not like to read or you are not serious about anti-Catholicism - DO NOT ORDER THIS BOOK - It’s LOOOOONG!) :rotfl: I guess when you are used to “easy” salvation, you don’t want “difficult” reading.


#7

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]There is a cuttingedge ministry that is just as bad,they will also make it appear to be Catholic until you enter:eek: What kills me is they feel like being deceptive is okay:nope:
[/quote]

Unfortunately, it’s the nature of these faiths. Deception is the *only *way they can convert and retain membership. How can you argue that the “True Church” is not true without using deception?


#8

[quote=Eden]Unfortunately, it’s the nature of these faiths. Deception is the *only *way they can convert and retain membership. How can you argue that the “True Church” is not true without using deception?
[/quote]

But they say that the Church is the deceiver and that we aren’t seeking the truth and we rely on others to help us on our way. Funny thing is… Helping others along the way is biblical.

What they don’t realize is that bear false witnessing is a sin.


#9

[quote=Eden]My favorite part of this whole site is #4 on the book list:

  1. Another Side of Catholicism
    For Catholics & potential Catholic converts

  2. Catholicism Unveiled
    For Protestants

  3. The Catholic Undertow
    For former Catholics

  4. Unmasking Catholicism
    **A longer book for serious readers :nerd: **

(Warning: if you do not like to read or you are not serious about anti-Catholicism - DO NOT ORDER THIS BOOK - It’s LOOOOONG!) :rotfl: I guess when you are used to “easy” salvation, you don’t want “difficult” reading.
[/quote]

I think if I read one of these books, I would just become angry with the false accusations.


#10

[quote=Sooner4Christ]catholicconcerns.com/

I ran across this site and couldn’t believe my eyes. Do protestants really believe they were the first Christians and that Catholics were nothing more than worshiping the sun God in Rome!

What is wrong with these people?
[/quote]

The Baptist “Trail of Blood” theory is hillarious. They pick out every heretical sect in history and say “don’t believe what the Church says about them, they were Bible believing baptists.”. Donatists, Tertullinarians, Montanists. Cathars, Lombards, Albegesians (who believed that the body was evil and sex should be engaged in as much as possible), and Paulicians (who believed in an evil and good God and that the whole old testament and most of the new were non-canonical) were all Baptists. Of course then the Church of Christ and Seventh Day Adventists use the same groups and say they were their early roots as well. It’s commical.

Blessings


#11

Oh, it’s mary ann collins. No wonder. Don’t waste your time folks. I doudt she was ever a nun.


#12

[quote=Sooner4Christ]I emailed the owner of this website and told him how wrong he was about what Catholics believe on salvation when concerning faith and works.
behindthebadge.net/apologetics/index.html#5
The man stated he is more educated on my own faith then I was and that we are justified by works alone.

I can’t believe the self-righteousness and the hardening of hearts from some people, it’s like they tell us what we believe.
[/quote]

Can you share that response here?


#13

[quote=thessalonian]Oh, it’s mary ann collins. No wonder. Don’t waste your time folks. I doudt she was ever a nun.
[/quote]

What is Mary Ann Collins infamous for? Anti-Catholicism or having a good prayer life?


#14

[quote=mercygate]Can you share that response here?
[/quote]

Sure here it is… it is quite lengthy.

Hello, I came across your site and noticed a false claim that many people assert when talking about how Catholics believe and teach when it comes to salvation. I also saw some statements from the orginator that I did not much care for.

First I would like to say… Catholics are indeed Christian in faith. We believe Jesus Christ is Our Lord and Savior and that he died on the cross for forgiveness of sins. I am not sure when or where Catholics were not considered Christians and that Protestants are the *only *Christians. I know you didn’t make that claim initially and that you soley responded to the person’s statements. For anybody to try and seperate Catholics as not being Christian is really a juvenile and asinine claim.

Now I would like to discuss some claims that you have made in regards to the Bible, and how the Catholic Church supposedly didn’t wanted her members reading the Inspired Word of God.
You stated:
You don’t want to read the Bible, and that is exactly what the Catholic church wanted people to be like, that is what the reformation was about in part. People should have the Scriptures to read so they can understand for themselves.

Actually the Catholic Church always wanted their followers to read the bible, but also understand to be educated on the bible and how to read scripture. Scripture cannot translate itself… That is why there are over 1000 different protestant denominations with their own translations. What happened during the reformation wasn’t automatic doctrine change, but a breaking away from the church… which in turn brought about the 5 solas. Sola Scriptura (BIBLE ONLY) is just one of them.

Keep this scripture in mind:

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [His] disciples that are not written in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through this belief you may have life in His name.

  • John 20:30-31

I would hope you would agree that faith is a personal act - the free response of the human person to the initiative of God who reveals himself. But faith is not an isolated act. No one can believe alone, just as no one can live alone. You have not given yourself faith as you have not given yourself life. The believer has received faith from others and should hand it on to others. Our love for Jesus and for our neighbor impels us to speak to others about our faith. Each believer is thus a link in the great chain of believers. I cannot believe without being carried by the faith of others, and by faith I help support others in the faith.

I have read protestant responses that the Bible Only is good enough… not man made traditions… First… I would like to say did the first Christians have a bible? Did the printing press exist? So how did they carry down the faith? ANSWER: By mouth.

Also the Bible as we know it came from the Catholic Church from the Council of Rome 382 AD which was approved by the pope. Followed by the Council of Hippo and Carthage. Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church’s heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her tradition the living memorial of God’s Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture. So the Bible is indeed a very Catholic book.

Many people have problems with Church Authority… however it is totally biblical contrary to popular protestant belief.

I. First we have to understand Jesus Christ founded 1 Church not 1000 different churches that teach different beliefs. Different beliefs come from sola scriptura… bible only. Everybody translates the bible on their own, which in turn makes their own Christian Doctrine according to “Their inspired revelation”.

Matthew 16:18-19

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."


#15

II. The Church is authoritative
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

I know amongst protestants they think of an invisible church among different divisions of Christianity… Notice in that scripture it says the Church not the Book of the living God.

So, I do agree people should have scriptures to be able to read for themselves, but not translate by themselves. The Bible doesn’t translate itself, if it does, then why so many different translations if the BIBLE IS CLEAR?

Now moving on to the salvation… You made a very incorrect statement when you said this:

I do disagree with them on salvation. They say it is by works and we say it is through faith alone. But you know what, we both agree that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and that makes Him the Savior. So it seems you don’t even believe what your own church is teaching.

It is often said, “Catholics believe that works are necessary for justification before God.”

That is not true. Catholics believe that justification is a completely gratuitous gift from God. You need to read the council of Trent and the teachings it stated on justification. It states, “If any one says that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.” Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, Chapter 8, January 13, 1547

Let me clarify that good works play a role in the Christian life only after a person is justified. As the Bible says, “[W]e are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do” (Eph. 2:10).

As the Bible says, “Without faith, it is impossible to please God” (Heb. 11:6). That’s some protestants like yourself understandably are scandalized if you hear someone say that Catholics believe good works are necessary for salvation. Which in turn with all do respects, shows your ignorance of the faith we practice. Often time protestants quote Ephesians 2:8 – “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast”

The part you miss is that Catholics and Protestants use the word “salvation” somewhat differently. When you talk about “salvation” the majority of protestants essentially make it equivalent to “regeneration.” You think of it as a one-time event that happens when you first repent and “ask Jesus to come into your heart.” In your belief, salvation is something that has already happened to you in the past. It is already complete and finished.

What you call salvation, I call initial justification, and we agree that it is a completely gratuitous gift from God. There is absolutely no way we can earn this glorious gift. We can’t even contribute anything to it. Instead, we come to God with empty hands and soiled garments. To reaffirm the difference, the Council of Trent states:

None of those things which precede justification – whether faith or works – merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.

However, us Catholics generally define “salvation” to include not just the experience of “getting saved,” but also the subsequent, life-long process of “working out” our salvation (Phil. 2:12-13). Catholics recognize that the Bible speaks of salvation in the past tense, and so it is proper to say we “have been saved,” but we also recognize that it speaks of salvation in the present tense, and future tense… I wrote the scriptures down that talks about salvation in past, present, and future as an exercise of my own study.


#16

Catholics believe that we start the Christian life freely, without regard to works, and that we are sustained in our faith wholly by God’s grace. But does that obviate the need for good works? Is it enough to “just believe”? After we are saved, what role do good works play in the process of “working out” our salvation? If we turn to the Bible, we’ll see that it is by our God-enabled works that we become like Christ. They are the mechanism by which God conforms us to the image of His Son (see Rom. 8:29). The Bible is clear that we must be united with Christ in order to be saved, for “he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit” (1 Cor. 6:17):

I know it can be confusing if you hold the doctrine of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) and it may sound as a back tracking in doctrine, but it does not… remember our differences that I mentioned above.

According to the Bible, we are saved by grace, through faith (Eph. 2:8-9). But obedience to God is a crucial element of faith. Paul wrote that he had been sent to call people “to the obedience that comes from faith” (Rom. 1:5). Peter wrote that we Christians had been “chosen . . . for obedience to Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 1:2). Indeed, it is not too much to say that God has covenanted to save those who, by His grace, obey Him:

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love (John 15:10).

We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him (Acts 5:32).

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts (1 Cor. 7:19).

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed – not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence – continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12).

Although [Jesus] was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him (Heb. 5:9).

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him (1 John 2:3-5).

We have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him . . . Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them (1 John 3:22-24).

This is love for God: to obey his commands (1 John 5:3).

This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus (Rev. 14:12).

When, enabled by God’s grace, we first turn to Him, He gives us the gift of faith, and He saves us gratuitously. There is nothing we can give Him, no deeds we can do to earn His favor. Through Christ, He gives us freely what we could otherwise never attain. Then, having saved us in this initial sense, He works in us to will and to act, in order to conform us to the image of His Son. As we practice righteousness, we become like Him. All of this, both faith and works, is by grace. It is God who sustains us in the Christian life. Therefore, “let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us” (Heb. 12:1). And let us “pursue . . . the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb. 12:14).

I have come to a conclusion and you can disagree or agree with me if you like. Unless we grasp the fact that our faith and our works, which are ultimately rewarded with eternal life, are both gifts of grace, we will never be able to make sense of the New Testament.


#17

Inevitably we will ignore half of it. Either we will emphasize grace apart from works, and descend into Antinomianism, or we will emphasize works apart from grace, and descend into Pelagianism. Instead, I believe we must maintain the biblical balance between the two. I don’t know if you recall C.S. Lewis or not, but he once observed, asking which is most necessary, faith or works, is “like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most necessary.

I’m going to quote a man by the name of John Henry Newman. If you don’t know him, he was Father of the Second Vatican Council,

he said “faith alone can make works living; works alone can make faith living. Take away either, and you take away both; – he alone has faith who has works, – he alone has works who has faith.” – Something I tend to believe both of us believe.

You stated:

I have many problems with the Catholic churches beliefs

Perhaps it is because you don’t know our beliefs and you think you know it by what people have stated. It is obvious that you do not know much about the faith, except what others have told you about the faith.

So, Ralph, before you bear false witness against your neighbor, you might want to find out what Catholics truly do believe… not what you think or what somebody told you.

God Bless

Artie


#18

[quote=Sooner4Christ]What is Mary Ann Collins infamous for? Anti-Catholicism or having a good prayer life?
[/quote]

AC.


#19

So, did you get a reply to that? :smiley:

Also, what is this ralph guy, protestant?, mormon? :confused:


#20

[quote=Eden]My favorite part of this whole site is #4 on the book list:

  1. Another Side of Catholicism
    For Catholics & potential Catholic converts

  2. Catholicism Unveiled
    For Protestants

  3. The Catholic Undertow
    For former Catholics

  4. Unmasking Catholicism
    **A longer book for serious readers :nerd: **

(Warning: if you do not like to read or you are not serious about anti-Catholicism - DO NOT ORDER THIS BOOK - It’s LOOOOONG!) :rotfl: I guess when you are used to “easy” salvation, you don’t want “difficult” reading.
[/quote]

I love long books :slight_smile: According to this link to the copy sold by Amazon.com, the book is a paltry 344 pages long.

At least Boettner’s Roman Catholicism is all of 464 pages long (that’s the fifth edition, of 1989).

Now Tolkien is different - “The Lord of the Rings” is about 1000 pages, usually more. That, is a decent length.

There should be more books at least 500 pages long - then people would have less time to watch trashy films ##


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