Anti-natalist Claim: People on antidepresents long term can not say "Smile your mom choose life"

Claim: "People on anti-depresents long term can not say “Smile your mom choose life” ".

“Smile, your Mom choose life” implies the speaker is capable of smiling without the equivalent of drugs called anti-depresents. The speaker can not smile without a chemical cocktail. To propose this argument makes the depressed speaker a liar.

“Long term” mitigates the potential counter-argument, “smile as things will be better later”.


Yes, I submit to the church teaching on all the things. No, I do not hold this view myself.

CAF is no stranger to controversy. The failure to discuss what the secular culture is just starting to play with, is a failure for what CAF was supposed to do, fight the intellectual culture war; it yields no advantage to ban it.

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You can be depressed but not want to be dead.
You can be grieving but not want to follow your loved one (yet).
You can be sad or in difficult circumstances and still keep going.

Also, we don’t believe “feelings” are the final word. Some people live rich lives even under difficult circumstances and even battle depression and leave their mark on the world.
Abraham Lincoln is someone who comes to mind but there are others.

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If they have sought help I would take that as evidence that they want to live and therefore are glad that their mother didn’t murder them.

If they attempted suicide, well their body their choice, as the pro aborts say. Again they are also choosing to take the pills. Again I would see this as evidence that, on some level, they want to live.

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Upon further reflection, let me say something sympathetic to your post.

It’s a bit insensitive to tell a depressed or grieving person to smile or “buck up”.
It’s better to give them space to express their feelings without being shocked or belittling.

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You COULD say the same for any medical condition where life long medication is required

(I’m happy my mom chose life but I’m medication dependent for life because I have diabetes or whatever). I don’t have diabetes just an example.
Life is life and everybody has some medical issue that we could “blame” our parents for.

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Hello. I suffer from chronic depression myself, though I do have ups and downs. In high school, perhaps the only thing that stopped me from committing suicide was the fact that my mother happened to wake up early one particular morning and found a note. (As an aside, it has recently come to my attention that my depression was likely not genetic, as my half-brother and unrelated, adopted sister both suffer depression as well.) I was also on anti-depressants for years, but I stopped taking them because every one I was put on just made me feel worse. I went to counselors for almost the entirety of my high school years.

I appreciate when people listen and are willing to “walk beside me”, but I have always hated it when people tell me to smile. Although I am an exreme introvert, I have realized something over the years. Why didn’t I try to commit suicide again? It wasn’t the drugs; it wasn’t the counseling. I hated both. It was the few friends I had who didn’t tell me to smile or cheer up, but were willing to walk beside me, sympathize with me, and recognize the depth of my struggles. (I ended up marrying one of those friends.) What I needed was validation that I was not less-than; that I was not alone; that there were things worth living for. That helped me manage and keep going (with frequent practical reminders).

Despite having wandered theologically for the past few years, I have remained anti-abortion. I do think that some slogans of the anti-abortion movement are insensitive to those who suffer depression, but I have also come to terms with the fact that people who don’t have to deal with depression directly just aren’t aware of what it entails.

So, I agree that I cannot say to anyone “Smile, your mom chose life.” In fact, I hate that slogan. Life is not smiles and rainbows, but suffering, sorrow, and pain, with a few bright breaks in the clouds. But there is an odd beauty in the struggle. There is a poetry in the sorrow. There is a wisdom that is found in bearing pain. There is value to a life, even the most wretched one.

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Are you saying that we should respond to this claim and refute it, or are you saying that we shouldn’t say “Smile, your mom chose life” in the first place, or did you have some other question?

I myself would not tell someone to smile, nor would I suggest that their mom’s choice should make them smile at any moment. They can smile when they like.

I haven’t come across the word anti-natalist, but I gather that it means those who support abortion liberties. (I deliberately do not say abortion rights, because it is not truly a right, but I do concede that our laws grant individuals the liberty.)

Anyway, if anti-natalists claim that people on anti-depressants long term can not say “Smile, your mom chose life,” I would regard that claim as a distraction from the real issue. However, it may be possible to engage them in dialogue about the goodness of our individual lives in spite of the difficulties, or some other affirmation of the value of human life. In other words, try to soften their hardened hearts by leading the conversation to a more promising approach.

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There’s a growing trend of saying it’s abusive to bring a child into this world. We’ve seen such claims before in history. It’s a natural outgrowth of either seeing us as good spirits trapped in evil matter, or the more modern nihilism.

Some people claim nihilism isn’t depressing, but liberating. However, I don’t think the majority feel that way or are capable of turning it around into meaningful (for them) existentialism. They’re in a culture that tells them they must accumulate worldly goods and be validated by sex, and many people aren’t finding any fulfillment in that.

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It means they think “birthers” are immoral for bringing children into a “world of suffering.” The person being created “can’t consent.” “It’s better to not exist than risk unhappiness and suffering.” They see life as suffering. They’re against, on some part of the scale (from one end to the extreme), reproduction.

And I know we might want to casually scoff at this, but the idea is spreading.

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My wife has a friend who holds a view along the spectrum you mentioned. She doesn’t view bringing new human life into the world as necessarily a moral evil, but personally refuses (her word) to do so herself, and used her reasoning to console my wife when things happened.

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Thanks for that clarification. Now I understand the Original Post a little better.

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Wait, what?

Okay, first of all, I live with a severe mental illness. I was abused as a child and now I suffer from consequences. I was on various medications, was hospitalized more than 6 times, and I tried to die more than 3 times.

Now, I live with the fact that I was born with a genetic disorder from birth. I was diagnosed with a rare neuromuscular disorder. But it will break my heart more if my mom chose to kill me rather than giving birth to me if she knew that I had this condition. Why? It’s because she might have chose on the fact that I had a genetic disorder, rather than trusting that God will handle my life.

She had no say on abuse that I endured. She wasn’t there when I was abused. She didn’t know what she was doing to me when the marriage broke down. She was not there when the school staff was beating me up.

It will break my heart if she decided to kill me.

I blamed God at the early years of my life because I was just a helpless child that was beaten and ridiculed every single day. When my mental health crashed, I blamed him for this magnitude of suffering. However, because of my friends that convinced me that my life was worth living and told me to smile, they eventually saved my life. My Catholic faith saved my life.

Eventually, my suffering led me to understand Christ’s suffering and the suffering that the Saints endured to become closer to God. He had a plan.

I’ve been on antidepressants since I was 14. Now I am in my early 20s. And yes, I can still say “smile, your mom choose life”.

I am not criticizing your post, but this thread absolutely breaks my heart.

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Would not a true anti-natalist be celibate, as were the anti-natalists of the 12th and 13th centuries? See “Moral” of the Cathars or Albigenses at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01267e.htm

Ah, but they have much better ABC, and they can just give it the “gift of abortion” before it can think.

Note I severely disapprove of what I just wrote. It’s just what I’ve heard people try to argue.

Perhaps “breeders” is more descriptive. :thinking:

On second thought, birthers is descriptive and fine, except it recalls the controversy over a certain US President’s birthplace.

I hear breeders a lot, too, actually.

I don’t often report posts but I’m going to report this one and try to gently tell you why.

Your grasp of how anti depressants work is woefully lacking. While there was a time that a ‘chemical cocktail’ was used to placate more violent of excitable individuals whats often handed out isn’t that.
What you are describing amounts to sedation.

What IS prescribed to someone with depression (and I’ll grant you some experimentation is done) is an introduction of a chemical to rebalance the natural chemistry of the brain. Sometimes doses have to be modified till the patient reports they feel normal or as near as they can remember.

So when you ask someone who is medicated to smile after a long term they are truly smiling.

Your post does a great disservice to the mentally ill, educate yourself on the healing of that process because you are spreading false information.

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Their claims are entirely short-sighted, lacking information and premature.

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I think CAF is one of the best venues on the entire internet.

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