Anti-Obama ad: 'Gather your armies'

Video at link

politico.com/news/stories/0610/38509.html

Is this ad seditious? It appears to be.

I wouldn't call it seditious. We have a duty to defend ourselves against tyranny. I cannot imagine the men who rebelled against a monarchy to sit idly by while we allow ourselves to be enslaved under one again.

People remember the "give me liberty or give me death" part of Patrick Henry's speech, but I feel that the question he asked of his audience just before that is more important: "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" to which he adds, "Forbid it, Almighty God!"

Abraham Lincoln also said, "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

At what point are we supposed to come to our own defense?

[quote="gilliam, post:1, topic:201962"]
Video at link

politico.com/news/stories/0610/38509.html

[/quote]

it sounds about right to me, but then again i am very right wing

[quote="bnbkaine, post:3, topic:201962"]
I wouldn't call it seditious. We have a duty to defend ourselves against tyranny. I cannot imagine the men who rebelled against a monarchy to sit idly by while we allow ourselves to be enslaved under one again.

People remember the "give me liberty or give me death" part of Patrick Henry's speech, but I feel that the question he asked of his audience just before that is more important: "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" to which he adds, "Forbid it, Almighty God!"

Abraham Lincoln also said, "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

At what point are we supposed to come to our own defense?

[/quote]

You raise some good points. I do have to say that the difference here is that America elected Obama. He is the result of deomcracy, where as a tyrannical monarchy allows no say of the people. We have to change the culture in America in this case. The problem is actually much, much bigger than a tyrannical king. That is easily dealt with. The American people are asking for these taxes and the loss of liberties when they vote for the people who promise them (like Obama). Until America gets its wake-up call, there isn't much to really do except continually vote no for those people.

Wasn’t Hugo Chavez elected? I’d say the start of a dictator, elected or not, is sometimes promoted by the people out of ignorance.

We have to change the culture in America in this case.

I agree with you there.

The problem is actually much, much bigger than a tyrannical king. That is easily dealt with.

Not sure it’s easily dealt with.

The American people are asking for these taxes and the loss of liberties when they vote for the people who promise them (like Obama). Until America gets its wake-up call, there isn’t much to really do except continually vote no for those people.

Yep.

Mr. Barber advocates eliminating income and corporate taxes and replacing them with a consumption tax while opposing the VAT. I think this video represents a declaration of war against traditional taxation rather than the government itself. I don’t think it’s seditious.

[quote="bbarrick8383, post:6, topic:201962"]
Wasn't Hugo Chavez elected? I'd say the start of a dictator, elected or not, is sometimes promoted by the people out of ignorance.

[/quote]

People should not be ignorant of genuine Christian principles. But they are. All of this ignorance, then they have they gall to claim they voted for Obama because of "intelligence". Genuine Christian principles showed me that voting for Obama would place us exactly where this ad shows us we are.

[quote="EmperorNapoleon, post:7, topic:201962"]
Mr. Barber advocates eliminating income and corporate taxes and replacing them with a consumption tax while opposing the VAT. I think this video represents a declaration of war against traditional taxation rather than the government itself.

[/quote]

But the Revolutionary War imagery makes the message unmistakable. The ad is seditious, IMO.

[quote="CatholicBoy1957, post:8, topic:201962"]
People should not be ignorant of genuine Christian principles. But they are. All of this ignorance, then they have they gall to claim they voted for Obama because of "intelligence". Genuine Christian principles showed me that voting for Obama would place us exactly where this ad shows us we are.

[/quote]

I am more interested in genuine Catholic principles, and genuine Catholic principles tell us to render unto Caesar and to refrain from armed rebellion because armed rebellion almost always results in evils far worse than those that are rebelled against.

Agreed, most of the programs we have in place today where created in the last one hundred years. These programs don’t really help the people, they enslave the people to the government. At what point do you put your foot down and say enough?

[quote="gnjsdad, post:10, topic:201962"]
I am more interested in genuine Catholic principles, and genuine Catholic principles tell us to render unto Caesar and to refrain from armed rebellion because armed rebellion almost always results in evils far worse than those that are rebelled against.

[/quote]

Did you forget about the Just War Doctrine of the Church? The Church believes there is a time for peace and a time for war. She also does not teach that you should just roll over and allow yourself to be walked on by the government.

From the Catechism

2242 The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."48 "We must obey God rather than men":49

When citizens are under the oppression of a public authority which oversteps its competence, they should still not refuse to give or to do what is objectively demanded of them by the common good; but it is legitimate for them to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens against the abuse of this authority within the limits of the natural law and the Law of the Gospel.50 

2243 Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.

[quote="gilliam, post:1, topic:201962"]
Video at link

politico.com/news/stories/0610/38509.html

[/quote]

ooooOOOooooh he aint playin!!

[quote="Sabda, post:12, topic:201962"]
Did you forget about the Just War Doctrine of the Church? The Church believes there is a time for peace and a time for war. She also does not teach that you should just roll over and allow yourself to be walked on by the government.

[/quote]

  1. The Just War Doctrine refers to wars between nations, not internal rebellions.

But, just considering the following:

2243 Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.

It is problematic that there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights;

All other means of redress have NOT been exhausted

Resistance will almost certainly provoke worse disorders

A citizen rebellion isn't going to work against the U.S. Army, therefore no hope of success

Better solutions are foreseeable

This doesn't apply, therefore, and the ad is IMO seditious. :(

After watching that video and reading some of the posts on this thread I can't find the words to really express how much is wrong with this argument. I give up. Screw it.

I didnt see it so much as an ‘argument’ but more of him making a point. That the guys on the other side of the table rebelled at the thought of a ‘tea tax’ and look at what were facing now…They would have been outraged. But its ok if you give up we dont like having our time wasted either. :shrug:

The Revolutionary War was fought for freedom and patriots were willing to sacrifice everything to have a nation where the power resided with the people NOT government. This is the basis upon which this country was founded and hardly seditious.

I think the ad is sad given the current state of this country where many are willing to trade their liberty for social programs which are doomed to fail.

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:14, topic:201962"]
1. The Just War Doctrine refers to wars between nations, not internal rebellions.

But, just considering the following:

2243 Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.

It is problematic that there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights;

All other means of redress have NOT been exhausted

Resistance will almost certainly provoke worse disorders

A citizen rebellion isn't going to work against the U.S. Army, therefore no hope of success

Better solutions are foreseeable

This doesn't apply, therefore, and the ad is IMO seditious. :(

[/quote]

We have already been down that road. The soldiers ARE a part of the citizens of this nation. They will not just blindly follow the government. Just take a look at the Civil War if you want to know what will happen to the army.

I agree, we are not at that point yet. Will we get there? I don't know, but it wouldn't shock me if we did get to that point in the future.

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:14, topic:201962"]
1

A citizen rebellion isn't going to work against the U.S. Army, therefore no hope of success

. :(

[/quote]

Especially of they come armed with revolutionary war period pistols!

I am afraid this ad is the same kind of nonsense we heard when Bush was President-That he was going to declare Martial law and become President for life. The truth is there will be a revolution-it will be in November and it will be at the ballot box

The United States would not be the world superpower, or any power for that matter, if it weren’t for income taxes. There’s no way we could have fought, let alone won, WWII without it. In the final years of the war; those with an income above $2.5 million in today’s money were taxed at 94% and it still wasn’t enough. Mr. Barber’s proposed tax reforms would have guarenteed defeat then and it likely would now.

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