Antichrist...the Beast


#1

Are the AntiChrist and the Beast considered the same entity/phenomenon?


#2

There is a dragon and two different beasts in the Book of Revelation.

*And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads. (Revelation 12:3)

And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems upon its horns and a blasphemous name upon its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. (Revelation 13:1-2)

Then I saw another beast which rose out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. (Revelation 13:11-12)*

The anti-Christ only appears in John’s first and second letters (1 John 2:18, 1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3, 2 John 1:7).

-Tim-


#3

The beast referred to by the number 666 is Emperor Nero.

unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.com/2011/08/hebrew-666.html


#4

The world would be a better place if Revelations hadn’t been included in the Canon.

Too bad.


#5

This is a very ignorant post. I don’t mean this as an insult but in the purest sense of the word ignorant - lack of knowledge. You obviously don’t know what the book is about.

Emperor worship was the problem addressed in the book of Revelation. The theme of the book is that those who persevere to the end will be greatly blessed and enter heaven. No message is needed more today than this…

Unfortunately the book has been misrepresented, misunderstood and mass marketed to the point where ignorance and misconception is the norm.

I mean no insult to you personally Steve but am very sad when I read a post like this because the book is really very easy to understand with a little bit of study done in the context of the whole Bible.

-Tim-


#6

Here’s what Martin Luther had to say about Revelation:

About this book of the Revelation of John, I leave everyone free to hold his own opinions. I would not have anyone bound to my opinion or judgment. I say what I feel. I miss more than one thing in this book, and it makes me consider it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic.

First and foremost, the apostles do not deal with visions, but prophesy in clear and plain words, as do Peter and Paul, and Christ in the gospel. For it befits the apostolic office to speak clearly of Christ and his deeds, without images and visions. Moreover there is no prophet in the Old Testament, to say nothing of the New, who deals so exclusively with visions and images. For myself, I think it approximates the Fourth Book of Esdras; I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it.

Moreover he seems to me to be going much too far when he commends his own book so highly – indeed, more than any of the other sacred books do, though they are much more important – and threatens that if anyone takes away anything from it, God will take away from him, etc. Again, they are supposed to be blessed who keep what is written in this book; and yet no one knows what that is, to say nothing of keeping it. This is just the same as if we did not have the book at all. And there are many far better books available for us to keep.

Many of the fathers also rejected this book a long time ago; 9 although St. Jerome, to be sure, refers to it in exalted terms and says that it is above all praise and that there are as many mysteries in it as words. Still, Jerome cannot prove this at all, and his praise at numerous places is too generous.

Finally, let everyone think of it as his own spirit leads him. My spirit cannot accommodate itself to this book. For me this is reason enough not to think highly of it: Christ is neither taught nor known in it. But to teach Christ, this is the thing which an apostle is bound above all else to do; as Christ says in Acts 1, “You shall be my witnesses.” Therefore I stick to the books which present Christ to me clearly and purely.

bible-researcher.com/antilegomena.html


#7

Why should Catholics care what an excommunicated Agustinian monk who broke his solemn vows have to say about anything?

-Tim-


#8

Minor nitpick, but it’s actually Revelation, in the singular. It’s all one single ‘unveiling’.

And I agree with Tim, by which I mean, I disagree with you. :wink:

No offense, but I admit I kinda find Luther’s arguments for this or that book rather weak, ludicrous even: ‘This isn’t Scripture because I don’t ‘feel’ the Spirit in it.’ ‘This isn’t inspired because it isn’t as ‘Jesus-y’ as I would have expected it to be.’ He was decent enough to add a disqualifier (‘I leave everyone free to hold his own opinions. I would not have anyone bound to my opinion or judgment…’), but seriously, if we all began to think like Martin here …

I hear stories about these people who read the Bible who get disconcerted with the Old Testament and all those bits about ritual laws and genealogies and the occasional stories with sex and violence in them. In other words, God’s Word doesn’t read very ‘godly’. I wonder if someone might use that as an excuse to throw the whole OT out of the Bible (using Luther’s line of reasoning, that is.) :shrug:


#9

No offense, but I admit I kinda find Luther’s arguments for this or that book rather weak, ludicrous even: ‘This isn’t Scripture because I don’t ‘feel’ the Spirit in it.’ ‘This isn’t inspired because it isn’t as ‘Jesus-y’ as I would have expected it to be.’ He was decent enough to add a disqualifier (‘I leave everyone free to hold his own opinions. I would not have anyone bound to my opinion or judgment…’), but seriously, if we all began to think like Martin here …:shrug:


#10

My problem with it is that over the centuries it has provided grist for the “conspiracy - X-files” set whose time could probably be put to better use.

I liken the inclusion of Revelation to the decision of the Church Fathers to include the added ending to the Gospel of Mark in the Canon.


#11

It’s kinda like a gun or a knife, you see. The gun or the knife are not responsible for whatever people do with them. I mean, you could murder someone with a pistol, but the pistol isn’t the one guilty of the crime - if that’s the case, prisons should be really firearm warehouses. :smiley: In this case, Revelation’s the gun.

And IMHO you might as well say the same thing about the whole Bible really. Or for that matter, any other sacred text.


#12

You know what I mean.


#13

It is the inspired word of God, given to us by a loving Father so that we can be saved and spend eternity with him. Hiding it because some misuse or misunderstand it doesn’t do any good.


#14

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