Any Apologists have a LOT of time on their hands?


#1

Here are 37 accusations against the Catholic Faith … Some can be easily addressed while others are a bit more difficult – it’s a good workout for any Apologist who has some time on his/her hands. :wink:


#2

You are on the BIBLE DISCUSSION. COOL. My name on that site is Ranchero. i want to debate someone on purgatory one on one. that site looks dead, the most users were 30! that was over 6 months ago!! Maybe we can bring it back with good debate.


#3

wow, that board needs help! Like some solid truth to refute the “misunderstandings” (putting it mildly).

For the sake of His sorrowful passion have mercy on us and on the whole world!

peace–
magdalisa


#4

I didn’t like it because (I am lazy apparently) it didn’t have numbers, like:

  1. Catholics are evil

  2. Catholics worship Mary

  3. Catholics believe works can save them

  4. Catholics are evil

  5. Peter was not the first Pope

  6. Catholics added books to the Bible (because they’re evil)

  7. Catholics are evil


#5

[quote=Lazerlike42]I didn’t like it because (I am lazy apparently) it didn’t have numbers, like:

  1. Catholics are evil

  2. Catholics worship Mary

  3. Catholics believe works can save them

  4. Catholics are evil

  5. Peter was not the first Pope

  6. Catholics added books to the Bible (because they’re evil)

  7. Catholics are evil


[/quote]

I think you forgot one,

8.) Catholics are evil.:rolleyes:


#6

[quote=D Quintero] My name on that site is Ranchero.
[/quote]

So YOU are the one who gave me that thumbs up reply to one of my posts. COOL.

[quote=D Quintero] that site looks dead, the most users were 30! that was over 6 months ago!! Maybe we can bring it back with good debate.
[/quote]

If not, maybe we can at least set the record straight regarding the Catholic faith for people who come across the site by accident so that they do not walk away with the wrong impresion of the Catholic Faith. When I have time, I plan to tackle those 37 points. I was hoping that others from would also want to help out and defend our faith by setting the record straight.


#7

[quote=Sir Knight]So YOU are the one who gave me that thumbs up reply to one of my posts. COOL.

If not, maybe we can at least set the record straight regarding the Catholic faith for people who come across the site by accident so that they do not walk away with the wrong impresion of the Catholic Faith. When I have time, I plan to tackle those 37 points. I was hoping that others from would also want to help out and defend our faith by setting the record straight.
[/quote]

I don’t know that I have the time to sit there and read through and seperate them all, but if you will copy a few (5,6,7) and post them here in a post I will write up something for them so you do not have to.


#8

Accusations (there’s much more text on the site, but I have edited to make it more readable - it’s fairly standard stuff):

  1. Who is The Final Authority? The Bible maintains that it is the one and only final authority, while Catholicism teaches that three final authorities exist. The 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church declares:
    …Tradition…Scripture…Magisterium …

    Therefore, the Catechism concludes that the one final authority is not the
    Bible, but the current teaching of the Catholic church, since she is the only
    one qualified to provide an “authentic in terpretation” of God’s Word.
    Does the Bible agree?
    Psalm 119: 160
    Psalm 12:6 7

The Bible boldly declares that it is the only final authority:
john 17:17

In the book of Revelation, God delivers this blistering warning about tampering with His written Word: Revelation 22:18 19

The Apostle Paul advises Bible readers how they should react to those who teach doctrines contrary to God’s written Word:
Romans 16:17 18

Paul admonishes true believers to avoid anyone who teaches doctrines contrary to the written Scriptures. He also reveals the consequences of believing such false teachings: Galatians 1:8

Thus, when Catholic doctrine contradicts God’s written Word, those who side against the Holy Scriptures will be "accursed."
The writer of Proverbs delivers the same stern warning to anyone who would dare change the written Word of God: Proverbs 30:5 6

God’s Word is settled forever
God pronounces that His Word was written once and has been forever settled:
Psalm 119:89
1 Peter 1:25
Isaiah 40:8
1 Peter 1:23

God’s Word is perfect
God’s Word can’t change because it’s perfect just the way it is:
Psalm 19:7

Catholicism claims that only the leadership of the Catholic church can properly interpret the written Word, but the Bible disagrees: 2 Peter 1:21 ***RyanL says - I can’t BELIEVE they use this to support Private Interpretation!!!***]

Where does God want people to obtain their doctrine… from a priest or from the Bible? 2 Timothy 3:16

Paul is not alluding to the magisterium or church tradition here because the previous verse reads:2 Timothy 3:15
Since the Catholic church was not yet in existence when Paul penned these words, he could not have been referring to the teachings of Catholicism.

Did God give away His authority?
As these and hundreds of other scripture verses make plain, God never gave anyone the authority to add to or change His Word. It’s perfect and complete, just as He wrote it.
One of the first questions you must answer for yourself is, “Did God violate all these Scriptures by giving the pope and the Catholic church the right to change His Word, though He said He never would?”

The Pharisees
While Jesus walked the earth, He publicly rebuked the Pharisees, the religious leaders of his day: Mark 7:7 8

Jesus was upset that the Pharisees had elevated their tradition above God’s Word because He knows that the Word of God leads people to eternal life, while the traditions of men lead people to eternal destruction.

Though these religious leaders obeyed all the rules of their religion, look what Jesus said awaited them: Matthew 23:33

When the Pharisees asked Jesus why His disciples transgressed the traditions of the elders, Jesus answered them with a question of His own: Matthew 15:3

Jesus always elevated the Scriptures above traditions: Matthew 22:29

God’s unchanging Word has always been the final authority, never the traditions of men: Colossians 2:8

Christians in New Testament times knew what the final authority was: Acts 17:11

To determine if what they had heard was true, these people went to the final authority, the written Scriptures. Jesus says of His Words: John 14:23 24

Consider these words from the Apostle Paul: 1 Thessalonians
2:13

When Paul preached the Word of God to these people, it was not Catholic doctrine because Catholicism didn’t exist yet.

Conclusion
God doesn’t change (Malachi 3:6) because He is perfect. His Son, Jesus, doesn’t change (Hebrews 13:8) because He is perfect. Why, then, should God’s perfect Word keep changing?
As you read the remainder of this book, you will be forced to decide which you believe is the final authority: God’s written Word, or the teachings and traditions of the Catholic church.
Your decision will become critical as you discover that God’s Word and the teachings of Catholicism are diametrically opposed on every doctrine we will examine. Will you side with the words of God or the traditions of men? Matthew 24:35

Note: Since the written Scriptures plainly state that they alone are the Word of God, for the remainder of this book, all references to the Word of God or God’s Word will refer to the written Scriptures only, not the traditions of the Catholic church or the magisterium.


#9

Accusations:

  1. Roman Catholicism teaches that salvation is available only through the Catholic church:

When checking God’s Word on this subject, two critical facts leap out:

A. The Bible never remotely indicates that one must go through a church to obtain salvation.
B. Literally hundreds of Scriptures proclaim that salvation is a free gift from God, readily available to anyone, but only through Jesus Christ:
… Again, the only requirement for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ…

Conclusion
God’s Word declares that salvation is obtained through faith in the shed
blood of Jesus Christ, while the Catechism maintains that salvation is only
available through the Catholic church.
You must now decide who you will believe?the traditions of men, or the
Word of God? You can’t say ?both? because each insists that the other is
wrong:
?.. God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that
we might live through him.? 1 John 4:9

Remember, someday you will stand before God and explain to Him why you
made the decision you did. Are you willing to risk rejecting the Word of God
to follow the traditions of men?
?For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the
tradition of men…? Mark 7:8

  1. Salvation Through Good Works

To be saved, Catholic doctrine teaches that one must continually perform good works.

Once again the teachings of Catholicism oppose God’s Word, which states that salvation cannot be earned, it is a free and undeserved gift of God:
…Pharisees…Traditions of man…Hoops like baptism, confirmation, confession…blah blah blah…

Conclusion
Roman Catholic friend, you must make another decision. Either you will believe God’s Word and accept the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, or you will believe the traditions of the Catholic church, that salvation must be earned through good works. You cannot choose Catholic doctrine and God’s Word because both disagree with each other. My prayer is that you will make the right choice. If you choose to receive the free gift of salvation from God, we will explain how you can do that in a
little while: “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:29

  1. The Church Forgives Sins

Catholicism teaches that it has the power and authority to forgive people’s
sins. Here are a few quotes from the Catechism. (Please note that
whenever the Catechism mentions the “Church,” it is referring to the
"Roman Catholic church"):
“There is no offense, however serious, that the Church
cannot forgive.” Pg. 256, #982

“By Christ’s will, the Church possesses the power to
forgive the sins of the baptized…” Pg. 257, #986
"The Church, who through the bishop and his priests
forgives sins in the name of Jesus Christ…" Pg. 363 364,
#1448

Does the Catholic church have power to forgive sins? Let’s see what the
Scriptures say:
“Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can
forgive sins but God only?” Mark 2:7 ***RyanL says, “I LOVE some of the things they quote! Do they realize WHO they’re quoting?”***]
“And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving
one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath
forgiven you.” Ephesians 4:32
According to Scripture, God wants His children to come straight to Him for
forgiveness of sins, not to a church: “Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of
grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help
in time of need.” Hebrews 4:16

Conclusion
Once again, God’ s Word stands on one side, while the traditions of men
stand on the other. God says He alone forgives sins, while Catholic tradition
contends that the Catholic church has the power to forgive sins. Which side
will you choose?
“Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his
benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities…” Psalm
103:2 3


#10

Accusations:

  1. Who is The Final Authority? The Bible maintains that it is the one and only final authority, while Catholicism teaches that three final authorities exist. The 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church declares:
    …Tradition…Scripture…Magisterium (Pg.
    29, #95)

    Therefore, the Catechism concludes that the one final authority is not the
    Bible, but the current teaching of the Catholic church, since she is the only
    one qualified to provide an “authentic in terpretation” of God’s Word.
    Does the Bible agree?
    … ***RyanL says, "I am removing the quotes and leaving the verses, for brievity.***]
    Psalm 119: 160
    Psalm 12:6 7

The Bible boldly declares that it is the only final authority:
john 17:17

In the book of Revelation, God delivers this blistering warning about tampering with His written Word: Revelation 22:18 19

The Apostle Paul advises Bible readers how they should react to those who teach doctrines contrary to God’s written Word:
Romans 16:17 18

Paul admonishes true believers to avoid anyone who teaches doctrines contrary to the written Scriptures. He also reveals the consequences of believing such false teachings: Galatians 1:8

Then Paul immediately repeats himself: Galatians 1:9

Thus, when Catholic doctrine contradicts God’s written Word, those who side against the Holy Scriptures will be "accursed."
The writer of Proverbs delivers the same stern warning to anyone who would dare change the written Word of God: Proverbs 30:5 6

God’s Word is settled forever
God pronounces that His Word was written once and has been forever settled:
Psalm 119:89
1 Peter 1:25
Isaiah 40:8
1 Peter 1:23

God’s Word is perfect
God’s Word can’t change because it’s perfect just the way it is:
Psalm 19:7

Catholicism claims that only the leadership of the Catholic church can properly interpret the written Word, but the Bible disagrees: 2 Peter 1:21 ***RyanL says - I can’t BELIEVE they use this to support Private Interpretation!!!***]

Where does God want people to obtain their doctrine… from a priest or from the Bible? 2 Timothy 3:16

Paul is not alluding to the magisterium or church tradition here because the previous verse reads:2 Timothy 3:15
Since the Catholic church was not yet in existence when Paul penned these words, he could not have been referring to the teachings of Catholicism.

Did God give away His authority?
As these and hundreds of other scripture verses make plain, God never gave anyone the authority to add to or change His Word. It’s perfect and complete, just as He wrote it.
One of the first questions you must answer for yourself is, “Did God violate all these Scriptures by giving the pope and the Catholic church the right to change His Word, though He said He never would?”

The Pharisees
While Jesus walked the earth, He publicly rebuked the Pharisees, the religious leaders of his day: Mark 7:7 8

Jesus was upset that the Pharisees had elevated their tradition above God’s Word because He knows that the Word of God leads people to eternal life, while the traditions of men lead people to eternal destruction.

Though these religious leaders obeyed all the rules of their religion, look what Jesus said awaited them: Matthew 23:33

When the Pharisees asked Jesus why His disciples transgressed the traditions of the elders, Jesus answered them with a question of His own: Matthew 15:3

Jesus always elevated the Scriptures above traditions: Matthew 22:29

God’s unchanging Word has always been the final authority, never the traditions of men: Colossians 2:8

Christians in New Testament times knew what the final authority was: Acts 17:11

To determine if what they had heard was true, these people went to the final authority, the written Scriptures. Jesus says of His Words: John 14:23 24

Consider these words from the Apostle Paul: 1 Thessalonians
2:13

When Paul preached the Word of God to these people, it was not Catholic doctrine because Catholicism didn’t exist yet.

Conclusion
God doesn’t change (Malachi 3:6) because He is perfect. His Son, Jesus, doesn’t change (Hebrews 13:8) because He is perfect. Why, then, should God’s perfect Word keep changing?
As you read the remainder of this book, you will be forced to decide which you believe is the final authority: God’s written Word, or the teachings and traditions of the Catholic church.
Your decision will become critical as you discover that God’s Word and the teachings of Catholicism are diametrically opposed on every doctrine we will examine. Will you side with the words of God or the traditions of men? Matthew 24:35

Note: Since the written Scriptures plainly state that they alone are the Word of God, for the remainder of this book, all references to the Word of God or God’s Word will refer to the written Scriptures only, not the traditions of the Catholic church or the magisterium.


#11

[quote=Sir Knight]Here are 37 accusations against the Catholic Faith … Some can be easily addressed while others are a bit more difficult – it’s a good workout for any Apologist who has some time on his/her hands. :wink:
[/quote]

It’s two years old.

Yes, it could help if someone answered. Maybe someone could sharpen their apologetics, but perhaps we’d be better responded where people will listen.


#12

I’d be happy if the guy just proved this one:

“The Bible maintains that it
is the one and only final authority”


#13

Okay… I’m in. It doesn’t seem too bad and as for the guy that you mention SK, he’s nothing. ALL of that can be refuted.

Do not ever let anyone draw you into an attempt to defend against an a-C shotgun post like that. It simply can’t be done effectively and posters likely know that. Only take one topic at a time and deal with it in a single seperate thread.

Use the library resources on the CA mainpage for short quotes and then link the rest of the article.

Their software is a lot more clunky than this and so it takes some getting used to.

Never fail to pray diligently that the Holy Spirit wll give you the words and wisdom as Jesus promised us. :thumbsup:


#14

[quote=Upstate]I’d be happy if the guy just proved this
[/quote]

one:

"The Bible maintains that it
is the one and only final authority"
You ain’t kiddin’! Another baselesss assertion of wishful thinking. :rotfl: It would be funnier if there weren’t people who really believe that! :frowning:


#15

[quote=RobNY]It’s two years old.
[/quote]

And for TWO YEARS people on the web have been reading that stuff with no counter-comments from us Catholics and have been walking away with the wrong impression of our Catholic faith.

I’m going to try and address some of them when time permits.


#16

Peace be with you!

RyanL - I agree completely! I absolutely LOVE those verses they quote to try to support their position. I think the one where the PHARISEES were try to trip Jesus up was the best one! Quoting the Pharisees to try to support Protestantism? Isn’t that basically proving that you can’t be the true Church if you have to quote THEM to support your arguments? I also love the whole “whose sins you forgive are forgiven; whose sins you hold are held” omission.

In Christ,
Rand


#17

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