Any Christian in this forum can prove God?


#1

Hi all,
I'm new to this forum. So far I couldn't find any single proof of God existence. What I've found is the otherwise - the non-existence. Hope anyone can provide at least one proof for me.

Thanks.


#2

I refuse to play this game-you know of the Five Ways. Please, engage with people in the Philosophy forum about them if you want to. That they don't convince you is not our fault.


#3

"proof" is applicable to three fields - math, philosophy, and science. Math obviously is not applicable to this situation, so that leaves philosophy or science. But God, by nature, is supernatural, and science is the study of the natural world. Hence, science cannot possibly study, observe, or prove God in any way, even if he exists. If God came down to earth and stood before you, by virtue of being a supernatural entity, you still would not have scientific proof of God.

Hence, that leaves one field in which proof can be given - philosophy. And in that field are Aquinas' five proofs, which you can find simplified versions of all over the internet, but I would recommend the unabridged versions in the Summa Theologica. It closes all the loopholes people try to point out in the simplified versions.


#4

[quote="Marc_Anthony, post:2, topic:301440"]
I refuse to play this game-you know of the Five Ways. Please, engage with people in the Philosophy forum about them if you want to. That they don't convince you is not our fault.

[/quote]

what he said! ^^


#5

What makes you think you'll find Him on the Internet? Go feed someone who's hungry and begging in the street, and look upon the face of Jesus.


#6

Just a thought......
I don't think we should assume the question is combatant. It seems a cavalier and insensitive way for posters to respond. I'm inclined to think we need, as Christians, to give the benefit of the doubt before brushing a new member off.
It's hurtful not to be able to believe in God is you desire to.
"Bitterreality, is a name that contains some emotional pain if this person has 'named' himself/herself correctly.
I would find these responses quite rude. Even if not meant dismissively, they used are on the internet which already has an intrinsic flaw in conveying messages and avoiding misunderstanding. :blackeye:
Yes the OP sounded abrupt...but wasn't the only one I think. ;)


#7

[quote="bitterreality, post:1, topic:301440"]
Hi all,
I'm new to this forum. So far I couldn't find any single proof of God existence. What I've found is the otherwise - the non-existence. Hope anyone can provide at least one proof for me.

Thanks.

[/quote]

I'll have a go by restating three arguments that I have said in another thread are very compelling.

  1. The Cosmological Argument that the universe does not explain itself and because the Big Bang clearly defines a beginning of matter, space, time and energy, points directly at a timeless, immaterial, all powerful, necessary and intentional explanation or Cause.
  2. The fine-tuning of the universal laws of physics at the instant after the Big Bang demonstrates that the controlling "force" behind the universe must have the virtually unlimited power and intelligence to fine tune more than 30 universal constants to allow the universe to bring about life.
  3. The level of intelligence and virtually unlimited power that could chemically order the DNA code in the first living cells with the "programming" necessary to allow for the capacity of DNA and protein molecules to generate the vast array of life on the planet Earth and possibly elsewhere in the universe.

These three arguments together entail an immaterial, timeless, intentional, super-intelligent, necessary being of virtually limitless power. I guess that comes as close to the classical idea of God as could be hoped from human reason.


#8

prove God doesn't exist.


#9

[quote="bitterreality, post:1, topic:301440"]
Hi all,
I'm new to this forum. So far I couldn't find any single proof of God existence. What I've found is the otherwise - the non-existence. Hope anyone can provide at least one proof for me.

Thanks.

[/quote]

Help me answer what you're looking for. What is your definition of proof (for example a logical proof is very different from a proof according to the scientific method)?


#10

If we can prove God, then our faith is vanity. ;)


#11

[quote="bitterreality, post:1, topic:301440"]
Hi all,
I'm new to this forum. So far I couldn't find any single proof of God existence. What I've found is the otherwise - the non-existence. Hope anyone can provide at least one proof for me.

Thanks.

[/quote]

I myself, being a poor ignorant sinner, could write books on how much proof I see every day of God's existence. It is written everywhere. Everything is so clearly the product of an infinitely wise God.

Everything except evil and sinfulness - that is the proud work of our human hands, and goes against what God has told us for centuries: love one another, forgive one another, pray for those who are against you. Because if you love only those who love you, what merit is there in doing this?

The question here is not whether you are looking for proof, but whether you are open to the possibility of there being a God. Because if you aren't, no evidence is sufficient proof.

Now, if you can provide me with one proof for his non-existence you will become great in my esteem. Because even though we are blinded by the veil of faith, all of us don't just believe, but know that God is there, and we have no reason whatsoever to lie. There is 1.2 billion Christians in the Catholic Church, without even counting all other peoples, Christian and non-Christian, who believe in God. But those who don't believe in Him, either won't until they have proof, or won't because they choose not to believe no matter what.

This is my advice for you: imagine for a second that what billions have believed throughout the centuries is actually true, that there is a God, and that He listens to each of us as if we were the only son. In a quiet place, kneel and place yourself at the presence of this God that is carefully listening to you. Then tell Him that you are open to acknowledging His existence, that you actually look forward to have that personal encounter that leads to everyone's conversion (because nobody is "told" that God exists, we all find out at one moment or another). But don't do this with pride, because if this God is there, then you are just a creature and He is the almighty Creator of all things. Don't do it as if He had some sort of obligation to give you some proof. Just try talking to Him for a minute and tell Him: "if you are God, then you know my soul and you know what I need. If you are God, then you want me to believe in you to find true joy and true peace. Please, make this happen, because it is for my own good."

This is my advice. Also, to read the Gospels, especially the Gospel of John. Read what is it that this Jesus Christ said, and find out why those few statements on four tiny booklets have changed the history of the world.


#12

No one on earth proves God to anyone. God reveals Himself to an open, seeking heart.


#13

What would you accept as proof? We can argue about the nature of God, but God's existence is incontrovertible, even it it is just a concept. A concept is just as real as anything else, such as Mathematics, Physics, Love, Hate, etc...Are you going to say that Love, Hate and Mathematics are not real and do not effect us everyday? Preposterous!

Pick up any phone book, Look under "Churches" and count how many pages. God exists in every one of those churches, in addition to the lives of each and every member and attendee of those churches. Concept, or not, God exists, whether you like it or not. And if enough people believe in something, it matters little whether it is an actualy, physical reality or not. it has the same effect as if it did. For example, at one time, the Radio Broadcast of HG Wells "The War of the Worlds" convinced a large portion of our country that we were being invaded by Martians. There was wide-spread panic, riots, injuries, and such, even though there were no Martians. If it was broadcast tomorrow on TV that the Earth would be destroyed by an asteroid in 24 hours, there would be panic, looting, suicides, and such, even if there were no asteroid. So a concept is valid. Splitting the atom was a concept. Would you say that nuclear weapons are not real? You'd get a big argument from Japan on that one.

I can prove that God effects your life, as well, whether you want God to, or not. If you have ever had to stop your car so someone could walk across the street to a church...God just effected your life. If you've ever had to open the door for Jehovah's Witnesses, or a local Church Group...God just effected your life...like it or not.

I rest my case......


#14

[quote="TriciaF, post:6, topic:301440"]
Just a thought......
I don't think we should assume the question is combatant. It seems a cavalier and insensitive way for posters to respond. I'm inclined to think we need, as Christians, to give the benefit of the doubt before brushing a new member off.
It's hurtful not to be able to believe in God is you desire to.
"Bitterreality, is a name that contains some emotional pain if this person has 'named' himself/herself correctly.
I would find these responses quite rude. Even if not meant dismissively, they used are on the internet which already has an intrinsic flaw in conveying messages and avoiding misunderstanding. :blackeye:
Yes the OP sounded abrupt...but wasn't the only one I think. ;)

[/quote]

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Yes - let us be charitable...even if it IS the umpteenth time the question is asked...After all this is one of the reasons the forums exist....

[quote="Farsight001, post:3, topic:301440"]
"proof" is applicable to three fields - math, philosophy, and science. Math obviously is not applicable to this situation, so that leaves philosophy or science. But God, by nature, is supernatural, and science is the study of the natural world. Hence, science cannot possibly study, observe, or prove God in any way, even if he exists. If God came down to earth and stood before you, by virtue of being a supernatural entity, you still would not have scientific proof of God.

Hence, that leaves one field in which proof can be given - philosophy. And in that field are Aquinas' five proofs, which you can find simplified versions of all over the internet, but I would recommend the unabridged versions in the Summa Theologica. It closes all the loopholes people try to point out in the simplified versions.

[/quote]

[quote="brianwalden, post:9, topic:301440"]
Help me answer what you're looking for. What is your definition of proof (for example a logical proof is very different from a proof according to the scientific method)?

[/quote]

These are very good responses...The problem with such a question is that very often what we accept as sufficient "proof" (evidence and/or logic leading to a sound conclusion) another - non-believer rejects as being sufficient.

[quote="Regina_Love, post:8, topic:301440"]
prove God doesn't exist.

[/quote]

And this is the flip side of the question...
You may provide evidence sufficient to you that we would reject as being insufficient...

This is why - either way - it is called "Faith"....

Peace
James


#15

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