Any current orders dedicated to defending catholics?


#1

Lately I have come across Liberation Theology and am pretty interested in it.

I also came across another thread on here asking about current Chivalric orders. However on that thread the orders were mainly for rich people who had financial power.

I was wondering if there is any orders that are dedicated to defending Catholics throughout the world.

In Latin America Catholics have been persecuted and there have been some who fought back.

Is there not a need to be prepared? There are fights throughout the world centered on religion. Some of them due to involve Christians being persecuted.

Back to liberation theology is there not a point where to fight poverty and relieve persecution of the poor and the faith one must pick up arms?

Violence is not necessary banned nor is warfare. I think this can be seen in the Just War Doctrine,


#2

Did Christ have an army? That should answer your questions. All is vanity but the cross.
Christ needs saints not soldiers. Linus2nd


#3

yet there were several saints who were soldiers…

And Saint Augustine made the outlines of the Just War Doctine.

And under the Authority of the Catholic Church there has been many Orders that commenced in Warfare.


#4

Matthew 5:
10 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11
Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you because of me.
12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

38
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39
But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.

43
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44
But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,
45
that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.


#5

Before you embrace liberation theology you should read about what pope John Paul 2nd and Pope Benedict 16th , when he was Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, had to say about it.

 With the Vatican recently announcing that some 100,000 Christians are killed every year because of their faith I think the question of when and how Christians respond to persecution  is a topic worthy of discussion.  I believe that "the blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church” but I also believe there comes a time when enough is enough.  What is the proper response to the atrocities being committed against the Coptic Christians in Egypt and Christians all throughout the middle east?

#6

Indeed!
This a topic of worth especially so since America is turning against it’s Catholic population.


#7

This entire business of priests trying to overthrow the governments in South America is pretty silly if you ask me. If I wanted to join the IRA, I’d join the IRA. But I’m entering the Seminary; the two are not compatible. Not now, not ever.

Now I sympathize with you, I do. And I am very interested in the Chivalric Orders but they are based, now in philanthropic efforts. The Knights of Malta for example are Hospitallers for a reason. I am, by God’s Grace, part of the AOH and will be sworn in with the KofC on the 24th of this month. There are certainly knighthoods and fraternal organizations out there if you want to pursue them, but not arms against a government.

Of course, there are examples where COUNTER revolutions ought to be encouraged. One such counterrevolution was the War in the Vendee, hell bent on restoring the Faith and the King. This was a legitimate and good cause. Another was the rebellion of the Poles against the Russians, Pius IX walked a fine line in this respect and did much to fight for the rights of the Polish.


#8

You find it silly? Silly that people who are starving and being persecuted and killed are fighting back? I am sure the people did not find it silly that a priest was supporting them.

But then you find it silly when people are fighting for basic rights in South America.
DId you know that the slogan of some of these countries are “Be Patriotic—Kill a Priest”


#9

Indeed. Let us not forget what happened in Mexico when the freemason backed government tried to wipe out Catholicism.

Then of course there was Russia…

Can we not learn from history?:confused::confused:


#10

Look back at what I said and then revise your question accordingly. What I said was: “This entire business of priests trying to overthrow the governments” was silly. Not “people who are starving and being persecuted and killed are fighting back”. Do you understand the difference?

Priests “supporting” the rebels? Support through prayer, fasting, and penance is one thing. Taking up arms and speaking of revolution is very different. It sends a treacherous example of worldliness in the priesthood. What does revolting against the government have to do with saving souls, the priest’s primary mission? A priest is called to baptize the faithful, to give tot hem the bread of Eternal Life, to absolve them of their sins.

No. This revolution business is SILLY.

The slogan changes nothing.


#11

The main problem was the government. So a priest chose to help the rebels. Just like priests and monks feed the poor. Praying will not feed the poor. That is why they actually give food to people. No one said it was primary mission. It is not god’s will for people to suffer it is up to humanity to save the poor.

What is wrong with worldliness? Priests should be amongst the people that is how you bring the message. Prayer is definitely a very important part but so is physically helping people in this world.

*The spirit of the Lord is upon me; therefore, he has anointed me. He has sent me to bring glad tidings to the poor, to proclaim liberty to captives, recovery of sight to the blind and release to prisoners, to announce a year of favor from the Lord. (Luke 4:18-19) *

The basis of liberation theory is a call to social action.

Jesus went amongst the people and helped them. I think Jesus was a very worldly person. I am not saying that taking up arms is always necessary. It should definitely be used as a last resort. However I do not think the church should hesitate to back the poor and oppressed.

To assess whether warfare is needed Just War Doctrine should be followed.


#12

Yes the poor and oppressed should be given help.Like food,clothing,shelter.

But not violent help.

Why are you ignoring my post of the very words Jesus said about being oppressed for his sake?

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=10821486&postcount=4

Pax vobiscum+


#13

There are two issues here that I see with Liberation theology. The first being that priests and religious should not be engaged in war, the second is the materialism that is thoroughly mixed up in liberation theology.

Priests are images of Christ, who wished to save all men, including His enemies. Thus, he never killed, as this shortens the time we have for conversion. While there may be instances when priest should fight, and certainly instances where they should protest, preach against government action, etc, their primary purpose is to save souls, and to provide the sacraments, since laymen cannot do the latter. Compare priests who prioritize fighting for rights over prayer and providing the sacraments to those military chaplains who would not pick up a gun, but died giving the last rites to soldiers, friend and enemy.

The other problem with liberation theology, is not that it encourages self-defense over oppressive Catholic-hating governments. Many Christeros are up for sainthood, and they did fight. Liberation theology, however, as with fighting priests, emphasizes being comfortable in this life almost to the exclusion of being saved in the next. Catholics believe in redemptive suffering, we do not think it is evil to suffer. While it is evil to inflict suffering, we believe suffering, when embraced, unites us to Christ and is a special form of prayer, a powerful way to love.

Materialism is rampant, and has been for some time. It is present in communism and liberation theology as well as the secularism and consumerism of the west. Many popes, including John Paul II through Francis, have warned against it in each of these settings.

If you are interested in learning more about the Church’s social teaching, the Vatican organization on doctrine has also come out with a Compendium on the Social Doctrine of the Church, which is unfortunately as lengthy as it sounds. However, it has a decent index to narrow down to what you’re looking for. I would also suggest reading some of the enciclicals about it, such as Rerum novarum, Quod apostolici muneris, Quadragesimo anno, or some of the popes’ addresses on liberation theology.


closed #14

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