Any Mormons on here read the CES Letter?

It is what caused me as a teenager to leave the Mormon Church after I read WHILE on my mission(which was technically against the rules) but a person gave it to me and I couldn’t help myself.
I subsequently left my mission and wrote apologies to people I converted and urged them to revert back. This was over ten years ago.
This is a link available in multiple formats. I urge anyone including non Mormons to read it, it is eye opening to the deception of Mormonism.

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I have read every word of it. For the most part, it was nothing new, just a lot of rehashing a long list of anti-Mormon doctrine. Some of it is compelling. Some of it does not cast good light on Jeremy Runnels. But I like his mettle.

I left the church around the time the CES letter started making its rounds. For every person that it persuades to leave the church, it has done a share of good. For me, it was just entertainment.

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That’s very admirable. I wish I had done the same. It’s been over 41 years since my mission and I’ve lost contact with everyone I had anything to do with baptizing. I have just prayed to God for forgiveness and also repented through reconciliation. I hope that is enough.

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Yah. Most of the stuff I had heard of, however this letter is so well organized and brings up quite a few details I had never heard.

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An excellent source that presents a great deal of relevant information to LDS who have the courage to look into subjects they’ve been told by their leaders not to look at. Written not by an enemy of the church, but by a former missionary who pleaded for answers to some tough questions from his leaders, was promised them, but never received them. Has changed many lives by revealing the true story of Mormonism in a thorough, organized fashion.

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A few months ago, a dad in my ward had left the church over it, and was requiring his daughter to read it if he was going to let her keep coming to church. I was in a few hallway conversations where various folks were working their way through the letter, to helpfully interact with both dad and daughter. Never heard how it went, I should go ask the guy.

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It seems to be having a pretty good ripple effect, even six years later. Anything to get them to pull their heads out of the sand and start to examine the truth is not a bad thing.

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I haven’t read it myself ,at least not on its entirety, and although I am not a Mormon , I’ve followed the story quite closely.
In fact today I just envisioned the video of the excommunication of Jeremy runnels ,and would have to agree with him , that was nothing but a kangaroo tribunal .:confused:

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I loved the part where he turned it around on them and excommunicated the church before they could excommunicate him.

Anyone who claims that the Mormon church won’t punish you for asking questions is either lying or ignorant. I’ve personally seen it.

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I just downloaded the letter and started reading. I can see why the LDS hierarchy wouldn’t want members reading this. The fact the leadership refused to answer any of these questions speaks volumes.

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Hopefully some of those folks looking to “help” dad saw something worth questioning in their research.

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I mean this part about him dictating it looking through a hat with some sort of magic stone in it is a joke right?

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No, it’s not. It was how he found treasure on peoples property before he had his “visions”, as well. From my point of view, he was a con man…a very bright intelligent con man but still a con man.

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It should be a joke, but the Church is very open about this . . . now. Most of my life, it was taught that Joseph translated the gold plates using the interpreters, i.e., the urim and thummim. But these were taken from him when he lost the 116 pages of manuscript and were never given back to him. This is just another part of the Mormonite history that is messy. He translated the plates or he didn’t. The plates were in the room with him when he wrote the Book of Mormon or they weren’t. He used the interpreters or the stone in his hat. Or not. Or both. The plates were concealed or they were on the table in open sight. Emma saw them or she didn’t. Who saw them with their spiritual eyes and who saw them with their physical eyes. What were they made of? How much did they weigh? How did Joseph, with a bum leg, run through the woods carrying them at his top speed, for over two miles? Fighting off men all the way. It goes on and on. You can’t take any of this seriously. I don’t know how to describe it as anything but messy. Sort of like the “great apostasy”. Sort of like polygamy. Sort of like the Book of Abraham. Sort of like the Kinderhook plates. Sort of like the anachronisms of the Book of Mormon. Sort of like “darkies” and the priesthood. Sort of like Joe’s many affairs. Sort of like the origins of the temple endowment and the subsequent changes. I’m starting to sound like Jeremy Runnels now . . .

The Mormon church is one giant mess.

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And the refusal of the LDS leadership to clarify any of this messiness weakens it’s credibility. The inability to provide definitive answers to basic questions such as “How did the LDS start?” or “Where did the BoM come from?” Then shaming members into silence by threatening their salvation (as they perceive it), telling them they “lost their testimony”.

We witness this effect on these threads from our LDS brothers. They struggle to answer direct questions, tending to question our purpose in asking questions, or redirecting the question by making accusations against the Church, or by just ignoring the question completely.

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All the witnesses to the “translation” of the BoM say the same thing. Joseph put a seer stone into his hat and buried his head in it to reveal the words. (The exact same method he used to con people out of their money by pretending to find buried treasure on their property.) But you won’t see this picture in an LDS chapel on the wall as a piece of art. Instead, you’ll see a picture of Joseph sitting next to the golden plates, intently concentrating as he translates the ancient characters. It’s all nonsense and deception.

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In what way?

I think he means it in the most obvious sense. As in, it’s got to be a joke that Joseph Smith translated the BoM by putting a magic seer stone into a hat and then holding it up to his face. Most serious people would find that to be quite ridiculous, don’t you think?

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Does anyone know what happened to Jeremy Runnels? Did he join another church, what happened with his relationship with his family, etc.

In the eyes of the Mormon church, it’s ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS the member’s fault if they have doubts when they can’t find good answers to serious questions. Inevitably, the individual member is blamed and if they refuse to be quiet, they eventually get excommunicated for apostacy. That’s how the LDS church protects itself. Isolate the doubter, label them an apostate (about the worst thing you can ever be called), and excommunicate them so as to prevent other members from following suit.

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