Any Other people that attend an Anglican church feel the same?

I feel like John Henry Cardinal Newman must have felt…(sorry so long) I apologize if anyone finds this “offensive”…I’m just trying to be honest and ask if anyone feels the same.

I attend a “high church” oxford movement type Anglican church. We don’t have female “priests/deacons/bishops” and we think homosexuality is perversion. We got the smells and bells, altar boys-no girls etc.

With that said, I just can’t stay Anglican. I hear all this stuff about “rich Anglican Patrimony” I fail to see it. Every time I tell someone I go to an Anglican church they say “what’s that?” (if they are protestant and “oh…” with a kind of uncomfortable look (if they are Catholic).

My husband and his friend perpetuate the MYTH that Joseph of Arimathea came to Britain and brought Jesus when he was a boy that the Brits had the Catholic faith from Joseph of Arimathea, Lazarus, Mary, and Martha after the crucifixion not that they got it from the Roman conquest of Britain around 55AD which would make them Christian from Roman Christians (which is the actual truth-so says Bede) Anyway I have to deal with the schismatic “jurisdiction” with is ABC Alphabet soup of Continuing Anglican Churches (APCK, ACA, APA, ACC, UEC, etc. etc. etc. because non of them want to be part of the main body centered around Canterbury or Schiori and her bunch at the ECUSA/TEC yet they are separate from eachother because their bishops want to stay in purple being the boss of their jurisdiction instead of uniting with eachother. I keep hearing “we’re Catholic just not ROMAN Catholic”, and “the church isn’t an institution it’s invisible made up of all believers” and my favorite “we are one of three branches of the Catholic Church.” The main bodies of the ACNA (that recently made itself from disenchanted Episcopalians) and all of the continuing churches I’ve seen have little or no children because they are soooo for birth control. So they are literally dying.

I’m a realist I see in reality: 1. The church didn’t start back in the good ol’ days with Lazarus, Mary, and Martha…Anglicanism was started from Henry VIII and his lust for women and power. 2. The rich history of the church consists of divorce remarried clergy including bishops, during the reign of Edward VI they tossed out correct theology in favor of personal (whomever in charge at the time) theology and heck since then it’s a believe what you want church. 3. Like I said it’s huge on birth control so much that my husband and I are the only “breeders” in our parish of 30+ people. The other jurisdictions in our city have either NO kids or people that have kids (one church had 2 families with children aren’t having anymore because they boldly proclaimed they got “fixed”.) 4. How can people belong to “one” church when they have different competing bishops, (who don’t have intercommunion with eachother btw)? 5. There are no more Saints in Anglican church not since they split away from the Pope if they are just like or another “branch” of the Catholic Church how come no more Saints?

Personal info…I can’t go Catholic (actual CATHOLIC) same old story husband is basically an oxford movement Newman that hates the papacy with a passion and would pull out his own fingernails before he dared call the Pope “His Holiness” but I can’t be “happy” or “excited” or even “content” being part of such a huge mess calling itself Anglicanism. To make a long story short same old thing he’ll divorce me we have 4 kids who’d be stuck in the middle of this (he will he thinks Catholicism is of the devil yet he admits their sacraments are valid?-does it make sense no I don’t think so) He thinks that praying to Saints asking for help is talking to demons…that there is no Saints in Heaven that they are in Sheol (abode of the dead waiting for the resurrection) He wants to become a priest so he can teach people what he wants and what he believes without too much interference from the Bishop of a certain jurisdiction who is on the other side of the U.S. away from us yet he thinks this is “being under subjection” (yeah right.) I’m trying hard not to resent him and keep my marriage together.

Why would someone fight to remain in such a mess? My husband says that “the church went astray around 325 AD at Nicea when it married the secular world and since then it’s “introduced” false doctrine and that Anglicanism is the best we can do in the last days in the mess that people have made of Christianity”…I don’t buy it…not for a second.

Anyone feel the same?

I did feel that way, which is one of the reasons why I left the Anglican Church.

However I didn’t have a spouse to complicate the issue, so I can’t really identify with that aspect of your struggle.

Hi defenderoftruth,

Thanks for sharing that insightful and heartfelt perspective. Clearly you should follow your conscience on this one, and from what you write, your husband is firmly entrenched in a deep-rooted spiritual ‘cul-de-sac’. The one commandment of Christ’s teaching that transcends such dogma is ‘to love one another as yourself’, (including the Pope!), and if nothing else, this should form the path to eternal life.

On a separate note, you may be interested in the ‘Wisdom of Benedict’ group site here on CAF, where the daily output of the Holy Father’s considerable spirituality is reviewed. You may also be inspired by the publications of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich, ‘The life of Jesus Christ, and Biblical Revelations’.

God bless

Hi defenderoftruth,

Thanks for sharing that insightful and heartfelt perspective. Clearly you should follow your conscience on this one, and from what you write, your husband is firmly entrenched in a deep-rooted spiritual ‘cul-de-sac’. The one commandment of Christ’s teaching that transcends such dogma is ‘to love one another as yourself’, (including the Pope!), and if nothing else, this should form the path to eternal life.

On a separate note, you may be interested in the ‘Wisdom of Benedict’ group site here on CAF, where the daily output of the Holy Father’s considerable spirituality is reviewed. You may also be inspired by the publications of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich, ‘The life of Jesus Christ, and Biblical Revelations’.

God bless

Hi DoT, I feel partly the same way, but do not agree entirely.

At the Church of England church I attend, I sometimes feel like the odd one out as we are married but childless, and nearly everyone else seems to have lots and lots of children and grandchildren. So I would be very suprised to find an anglican church which would not be very supportive to marriage and families, but I guess things operate differently in different places.

I agree with your comments about Henry VIII. Its a bit peculiar to have a church founded on a divorce :slight_smile: The official line of course is that we do have apostolic succession through an unbroken chain of laying on of hands from the first apostles to date. But I feel close to the Catholic church personally and may wish to join one day.

God bless.

The Anglicanism suffers from the disease Freud called the defense mechanism of rationalization.
The Children of Reformation, today’s Anglicans, had nothing to do with Protests or Protestantism or Henry the VIII: they received this heritage and must defend it for it is their ancestors’.

Rationalization means that if you smoke heavily, you will discover reasons, even absurd ones, to smoke. It is useless to argue against a smoker. You give 1000 reasons and he will discover 1001. Now, if he quits smoking, all of a sudden, you will hear him be the most heavily armed anti-smoker of the world.

Anglicans, today’s Anglicans, the children of Reformation, rationalize even if it needs to invents out of this world reasons. No one will say, I am Anglican because I follow Henry the VIII, so they will have to find whatever decent reasons there are.

Once they discover the RCC and their richness, the discourse changes.

I don’t, though I am aware of the things you mention, re: the Continuum.

And if you do feel this, I can’t see any reason that you should stay in the situation you are in, Church-wise. If you can affirm all that the RCC requires you to affirm (if that is your inclination), then you either do so, and leave him, if that is what eventuates, or don’t and remain where you are. Only you can tell which is preferable.

The Joseph of Arimathea mythos, as told in such as Lewis’ ST. JOSEPH OF ARIMATHEA AT GLASTONBURY or Harvey’s TO THE ISLES AFAR OFF, is pious legend, that predates Henry VIII. Some folks are overly credulous, as to pious legend, especially if it serves a purpose. And Henry VIII certainly had a lust. But the history of his Great Matter is more complex than that cardboard cutout. A hobby of mine, old Hank.

You say you feel as Newman felt.You know what Newman eventually did; he had no choice. Do you?


posterus traditus Anglicanus

Added: I thought we had spoken before, and we have, not quite 3 years ago, touching on this general subject. Your expressed opinions have changed. Perhaps I can guess why.

Would you please explain this point further?

They haven’t put anymore into Sainthood. (capital S not lower case s)


Really when was the last time the Anglican church canonized someone?

Compare the resolution of the 1930 Lambeth Conference (

Where there is clearly felt moral obligation to limit or avoid parenthood, the method must be decided on Christian principles. The primary and obvious method is complete abstinence from intercourse (as far as may be necessary) in a life of discipline and self-control lived in the power of the Holy Spirit. Nevertheless in those cases where there is such a clearly felt moral obligation to limit or avoid parenthood, and where there is a morally sound reason for avoiding complete abstinence, the Conference agrees that other methods may be used, provided that this is done in the light of the same Christian principles. The Conference records its strong condemnation of the use of any methods of conception control from motives of selfishness, luxury, or mere convenience.

See, this is an example of how true that old stereotype is of the churches in the Anglican tradition - that they strive to follow a middle path. But all too often, it ends up being nothing more than incremental compromise with the world, until the Gospel is watered down to homeopathic proportions.

The Conference was so careful to affirm the traditional approach to marriage while admitting kinda sorta maybe sometimes it might be okay to use contraception - but of course no one really cares what the context was, only that it was now officially OK for Anglicans to use contraception.

Seventy-three years after this resolution, along comes Gene Robinson. But anyone with Christian shrewdness would have seen it coming.

And anyone with internet access can follow the fascinating story of abortion among Anglicans, I’m not going to bother citing it here.

Tell us how you really feel, Defender! LOL

I thought they were still adding saints to their church calendar, e.g. September 20, John Coleridge Patteson, Bishop of Melanesia, and his Companions, Martyrs, 1971.

Um, maybe ask for a favor through the intercession of Catherine of Aragon? See

Just the way you said that, with the exasperated tone, made me LOL

I am acna and we have plenty of Children. Have you been to an R.C. Mass lately? The Orthodox Church is a good alternative. But the Orthodox are not problem free either. I suspect you will deal with the same issues there. Anglicanism is a via media. We differ from Orthodoxy in that we do not make doctrines dogmatic that can not be proven by scripture. We do not reject Tradition but we believe Tradition should be used to interpret the Bible as the sole rule of faith. We have problems in Anglicanism mostly because of where we are located. Western Europe and the United States have been pushing God aside for quite some time now. This was true even back in the days of C.S. Lewis. We are Catholic. Unless of course you allow Rome to have the definition on who is Catholic and who is not. Many Orthodox would not consider the R.C. to be Catholic. There will always be and there have always been heretical priests in the Church. Sometimes these Priests even get their heretical ideas accepted. What ECUSA has done is terrible and completely contrary to what the Christian faith has stood for since the beginning. But if your looking for a problem free church I’m afraid that the only Church that will do is the one in heaven.

Many Anglicans invoke the saints and Mary. This is not dogmatic because no Anglican is allowed to demand their followers to believe anything that cannot be proven by scripture as it was understood by the first 7 ecumenical councils of the Church. Anglicanism is simple Catholicism. We do not reinterpret anything. We have no confession of our own. We demand only what is necessary for salvation. If you are looking for someone to dictate to you what they think this or that is referring too than Anglicanism is not for you.

Luke 10:16* “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

This is that “cafeteria” feel that I can’t stand…

“A little of this and a little of that, oh no thank you I don’t feel like peas today, and I don’t like Broccoli…it’s so nice being my own bishop and pope I get to believe whatever I want and nothing I don’t!”

Everyone is infallible except the Pope right JPeter? :rolleyes:

Sorry Moderator but I can’t stand the “isn’t it great” mentality of those that refuse to be obedient to the Pope. I don’t mean to sound rough or angry but hey I’ll be honest that’s how I feel. Oh and JPeter, I’ve been to an Eastern Orthodox church it was part of the OCA (Orthodox Church in America) they didn’t recognize ANY baptism outside of an Eastern Orthodox church yet they were in Communion with the Antiochians and Greeks who do recognize baptisms outside of the EO communion. They have the Greeks, Antiochians, Serbians, OCA, ROCOR, etc. etc. in the United States all claiming they are one church but again have competing Bishops only a few believe in a literal hell the rest think that everyone is in the presence of God in Heaven but some suffer and some don’t for eternity…so Eastern Orthodox is a lot like Anglicanism. They also allow divorce and remarriage up to (get this) THREE TIMES. And allow birth control…and rape/incest abortion. That’s unacceptable.

The biggest thing is if you actually read the early church you’d see alot of “see of Peter” “chair of Peter” etc. etc. talking about Rome and if one doesn’t agree with Rome one isn’t in the church. Can’t get passed that one.


If I could offer something for your husband’s edification (this will cost you a few bucks) go to and check out the store. There is a 3 cd set there on John Henry Cardinal Newman given by Fr. Robert Barron, S.T.D. The Rev, Dr. Barron gives an excellent explication of the evolution of Newman’s religious life and thought in those lectures.

If your husband is truly a Newman fan, as I am, it may go a long way toward helping him adjust his thinking as Newman did.

Also, if you go to, click on “faith” then on “Libraries” then on “audio libraries” enter (under series) “McCloskey” or “Newman” or both. The extremely articulate Rev. C. John McCloskey hosted a series on Newman some years ago which also supports Newman’s theological evolution (free, can be downloaded to iPod or sit in front of the computer and listen).

All the best in your efforts.

Its about placing emphasis on what matters. The message of the Christian faith is Christ Crucified and raised from the dead on the third day for the remission of sin. Whether you pray to saints or not has nothing to do with salvation. Am I supposed to throw a person out of the Church because he does not pray to saints? Am I a better Christian than him for praying to saints? I do not know any Anglican that would say Rome isn’t part of the Church but I know Millions of Roman Catholics who would say Anglicans are not part of the Church. The Petrine doctrines are what the Roman Catholic Church stands or falls behind. The Pope said it, so it is (at least when in ex cathedra). If you have become convinced that the Roman Church is the fullness of the faith than go there. But understand this, when you go to the Roman Church you have to believe everything they are teaching you. You want to consistently eat broccoli and they can give you that, but it has to be that way every time. So when you look at a Tradition that looks like it could be peas, it makes no difference because Rome has declared that it is broccoli.

DoT, have you changed so much since December? In this thread,, you spoke glowingly of your Anglican church and said you couldn’t become Roman Catholic because of the papacy and marian dogmas. See posts 49, 50 and especially 107 in the above thread.

I have. I’ve really really tried to be “excited” about Anglicanism and quite frankly I’m tired of desperately trying to convince others of it’s authenticity but importantly I’m done trying to convince myself. You can only lie to yourself so often until you feel like a heel. Even if IF our church (the one I belong to) had a succession from the “dutch touch” the Anglican church as a whole as given up on theology passed down in favor of intellectualism. I guess no one can change without someone trying to remind them or throw it in their face thanks for proving that Masuwerte. :mad:


Since then BTW, I’ve read a book called “the bible proves the teachings of the catholic church” it deals with and gives UNDENIABLE evidence of the “problem subjects” I had in December. It’s the best apologist book I’ve read on the Catholic Church. (just because its written by a sedevacantist doesn’t mean it isn’t true.)


It was 3 months ago. The question seemed a reasonable one. I had come to a conclusion earlier today myself, on the difference between your posts back 3 years ago, and this thread.

I’m not throwing anything in your face; I don’t think masuwerte was, either. If you can affirm what the RCC requires you to affirm, think of Cardinal Newman.


I’ve done a lot of reading and what you are referring to is called obedience…to the Pope instead of myself.

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