ANY SDA Converts?


#1

**
**There are a few threads over on the Christian Forums in the General Theology wherein I have had some conversations with SDA that seem to have great antipathy for Catholics. I was quite taken aback since I have some very nice and loving SDA neighbors. They have made very ascerbic remarks and accusations against the Church which I tried to explain and clear up, but they will continue to argue the point until irrefutable evidence is presented. Then they will just jump to another accusation when the evidence is presented. Can any one help me explain the truth in a way that they will accept. Thank you all.

Your brother in Christ.


#2

I know a few SDA, they are generally anti-catholic, it is in a sense necessary for them to believe this because a lot of their beliefs ie: sabbath worship etc revolve around the idea that the Catholic Church is evil, pope is the anti-christ and that we somehow diverged from what they consider “Biblical Christianity”

I don’t think there is a way to prove anything directly to them, I would take it from a position of trying to refute whatever silly claims they have and next time they make a claim it is not up to you to spend hours disproving it, it is up to them to spend the time proving it.

I hope that helps,
Andrew


#3

Hi Ignatius,

(Incidentally, great name.)

All Adventists believe that the Catholic Church (as an institution) is the Antichrist. Your warm Adventist neighbors had the same conviction, but knew that individual Catholics must be treated with respect and love.

The individuals you are debating online seem to be fervent, excited, adamant, and bold in their denunciation of the Church. That they are persistent in their claims, and finally resorting to raising other issues, is not surprising. Take it from someone who, studying at an Adventist university, converted to Roman Catholicism and must now defend the Faith daily to his peers.

Most Adventists cannot begin to grasp why anyone (including myself) would by their own decision become Catholic. Everything about the Church is wrong in their eyes: everything looks wrong, sounds wrong. When your friends online quickly pass to the next issue when backed in a corner, they are revealing that hidden conviction. The moment you resolve one issue they WILL ABSOLUTELY jump to the next because CLEARLY the Catholic Church is wrong. “You may refute one piece of our argument, but you can’t overcome the rest of it,” and so on, and so on. What becomes most exasberating is when they abandon some topics, skip to others, and then adamantly bring up old ones you already cornered them on. Grrrrrr

It’s what Pius IX pityingly called “invincible ignorance” regarding the Church. You know, in my apologetics I continually seek out better evidence and arguments, and wonder… why? No one listens. No one cares. I bring out the best evidence, and they lean on a poor exegesis of the Scriptures simply to defend the beliefs which they “know” are right, and refute mine, which are obviously “wrong.” Exasperating… especially when the replies are adamant, looping, and denunciatory.

It’s frustrating… you’re not alone.

(P.S. This does not apply to all Adventists)


#4

(cont.)

What does this mean to you…

  1. Pray for them. If there’s one thing I learned in my experieince (culminating in my confirmation this Easter) is that Catholicism is a calling. Many Christians… many Catholics (!) seemingly haven’t recieved the calling. It’s true… only the Holy Spirit can illuminate our minds and hearts to be open to His word. I don’t know how I, active and enthused in lay Adventist apologetics and evangelism was reduced to… a Catholic. But praise God, haha! God did something amazing in my heart… IN TWO WEEKS. Pray for them… only Christ can do for all of us what He did for Paul.

  2. If others are benefitting from your discussion/debate, then continue. If no one is benefiting from your debate (seemingly), you are. You are understanding people… how to talk with them and present the truth to them, how to handle them. It’s an invaluable experieince. It will certainly teach you much about Adventism. God will let you know when to move on if your pursuit is fruitless, but at this stage, consider this an oppurtunity to learn more about Adventism.

  3. Finally, continue to study, and improve/refine your argumentation. Many arguments used by Catholic apologists against Adventists are weak, or unconvicing (or, Adventists already have answers for them). Don’t ever end up where they are mentally (“Oh, they’re obviously wrong.”)… keep studying Adventist doctrine and finding the holes. Talk with former Adventists on this forum, study the Bible.

My prayers go with you.


#5

P.S. FINALLY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:

Remain Christlike in all your conversation with them! This is HUGE! Let them see your intelligent, sincere appeal in all its divine splendor. Pray for this attitude of Christlike love.


#6

What a wonderful testimony. Thank you for sharing!


#7

I grew up in a town that had a huge billboard that was proudly sponsored by SDA with a papal mitre that had “666” on it (it was there all the years I lived there). Here in Portland I have had several young people from the Laurelwood Academy (an SDA private school) that have tried to sell me books, several of which were almost Jack Chick material. So, all the experience that I have had with the SDA church has been pretty anti-Catholic.


#8

quote=adventistnomore

What does this mean to you…

  1. Pray for them. If there’s one thing I learned in my experieince (culminating in my confirmation this Easter) is that Catholicism is a calling. Many Christians… many Catholics (!) seemingly haven’t recieved the calling. It’s true… only the Holy Spirit can illuminate our minds and hearts to be open to His word. I don’t know how I, active and enthused in lay Adventist apologetics and evangelism was reduced to… a Catholic. But praise God, haha! God did something amazing in my heart… IN TWO WEEKS. Pray for them… only Christ can do for all of us what He did for Paul.

  2. If others are benefitting from your discussion/debate, then continue. If no one is benefiting from your debate (seemingly), you are. You are understanding people… how to talk with them and present the truth to them, how to handle them. It’s an invaluable experieince. It will certainly teach you much about Adventism. God will let you know when to move on if your pursuit is fruitless, but at this stage, consider this an oppurtunity to learn more about Adventism.

  3. Finally, continue to study, and improve/refine your argumentation. Many arguments used by Catholic apologists against Adventists are weak, or unconvicing (or, Adventists already have answers for them). Don’t ever end up where they are mentally (“Oh, they’re obviously wrong.”)… keep studying Adventist doctrine and finding the holes. Talk with former Adventists on this forum, study the Bible.

My prayers go with you.

P.S. FINALLY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:

Remain Christlike in all your conversation with them! This is HUGE! Let them see your intelligent, sincere appeal in all its divine splendor. Pray for this attitude of Christlike love.

[/quote]

Thanks ANM. I haden’t thought of it that way. I was just getting frustrated, but I see that perhaps those benefiting from the discussion are not those I am addressing. You are very right, I am learning more about our Faith in this process and that makes it worth the work. I thank you for the insight.

And Congratulations on your Confirmation in the Faith.

May the grace of Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you always.

Your brother in Christ.


#9

offer up your prayers for them and all your prayers in union with and through the sacrifice of Christ on the Altar of the Cross and with the prayer of the Holy Mass being offered up throghout the world!


#10

Ignatius

I am a near hit from they SDA side of the road, I have a very devoted ex-relative thats an SDA, She knows her church and her bible very well and I nearly joined several years ago.
They have some qualities and convictions that during my search for Jesus and the church he established here on earth that I could have been convinced. But thanks to the Lord he placed it in my heart that their was just somethings that did not quite add up for me.
Part of those things were the near Jack Chic blatent hatred of the RC and a few other churchs.

God Bless on your learning quest
MM


#11

[quote=arieh0310]I grew up in a town that had a huge billboard that was proudly sponsored by SDA with a papal mitre that had “666” on it (it was there all the years I lived there). Here in Portland I have had several young people from the Laurelwood Academy (an SDA private school) that have tried to sell me books, several of which were almost Jack Chick material. So, all the experience that I have had with the SDA church has been pretty anti-Catholic.
[/quote]

Hey Arieh0310! I am curious to know which town this is! I too am an Oregonian and would like to know. Congrats by the way on joining the Church this Eaer! My wife and I joined in 2001! God Bless!


#12

[quote=St.Eric]Hey Arieh0310! I am curious to know which town this is! I too am an Oregonian and would like to know. Congrats by the way on joining the Church this Eaer! My wife and I joined in 2001! God Bless!
[/quote]

Medford, OR…There was a huge billboard on McAndrew St. (if memory serves) that was there for years, don’t know if it still there.

Thank you for the kind words, I am pretty excited.


#13

[quote=adventistnomore]Hi Ignatius,

(Incidentally, great name.)

All Adventists believe that the Catholic Church (as an institution) is the Antichrist. Your warm Adventist neighbors had the same conviction, but knew that individual Catholics must be treated with respect and love.

The individuals you are debating online seem to be fervent, excited, adamant, and bold in their denunciation of the Church. That they are persistent in their claims, and finally resorting to raising other issues, is not surprising. Take it from someone who, studying at an Adventist university, converted to Roman Catholicism and must now defend the Faith daily to his peers.

Most Adventists cannot begin to grasp why anyone (including myself) would by their own decision become Catholic. Everything about the Church is wrong in their eyes: everything looks wrong, sounds wrong. When your friends online quickly pass to the next issue when backed in a corner, they are revealing that hidden conviction. The moment you resolve one issue they WILL ABSOLUTELY jump to the next because CLEARLY the Catholic Church is wrong. “You may refute one piece of our argument, but you can’t overcome the rest of it,” and so on, and so on. What becomes most exasberating is when they abandon some topics, skip to others, and then adamantly bring up old ones you already cornered them on. Grrrrrr

It’s what Pius IX pityingly called “invincible ignorance” regarding the Church. You know, in my apologetics I continually seek out better evidence and arguments, and wonder… why? No one listens. No one cares. I bring out the best evidence, and they lean on a poor exegesis of the Scriptures simply to defend the beliefs which they “know” are right, and refute mine, which are obviously “wrong.” Exasperating… especially when the replies are adamant, looping, and denunciatory.

It’s frustrating… you’re not alone.

(P.S. This does not apply to all Adventists)
[/quote]

Hi adventistnomore,
Invincible ignorance means that one cannot possibly know. Those who are shown the truth or those who should diligently seek the truth and refuse to do so are not invincibly ignorant. I’m not judging the souls of those Adventists or any other person I’m just stating the fact. You can read about I. I. at the url below.

KK

newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm


#14

[quote=adventistnomore]P.S. FINALLY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:
Remain Christlike in all your conversation with them! This is HUGE! Let them see your intelligent, sincere appeal in all its divine splendor. Pray for this attitude of Christlike love.
[/quote]

Thank you for this. You are much better than I am. I have two problems when I try to converse with them: (1) I don’t know the Bible well enough and (2) My Irish temper flares. :o


#15

Can anyone recommend good resources, on line or in print, for talking with SDA church members?

Preferably resources from a Catholic perspective. (Also preferably easy to read, accurate and relatively easy to digest)

Any help would be appreciated.


#16

[quote=Kathleen Kelly]Hi adventistnomore,
Invincible ignorance means that one cannot possibly know. Those who are shown the truth or those who should diligently seek the truth and refuse to do so are not invincibly ignorant. I’m not judging the souls of those Adventists or any other person I’m just stating the fact. You can read about I. I. at the url below.

KK

newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm
[/quote]

Thanks for the correction. :slight_smile:


#17

[quote=Ignatius]Can anyone recommend good resources, on line or in print, for talking with SDA church members?

Preferably resources from a Catholic perspective. (Also preferably easy to read, accurate and relatively easy to digest)

Any help would be appreciated.
[/quote]

There isn’t a whole lot out there. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Adventists will NEVER dream of becoming Catholic… few converts from Adventism translates into few documents sensitive to the arguments of Adventists. What is written tends to be from the pen of Catholic apologists.

My roommate in an Adventist college was impressed by staycatholic.com (though he never converted). Also, theotokos.co.za has many articles on Adventism.

I would love to write a few Bible studies to reach Adventists, perhaps in a style very familiar to those they produce to reach Catholics and others. I’m well read in Adventist scholarship, however, so I’m careful with regards to what verses I use, etc. Pray for me… I’d love to do it, but time and learning to write an effective tract always present difficulties.


#18

Hi Ignatius, with SDA the first thing you want to do is identifly major theology vs minor theology. And, seek to show where your two churches agree on major theology. Beware, there are also homean arian SDA too. Center your conversations on who Jesus is and what Jesus did. The best book on SDA is by Walter Martin called The Truth About Seventh Day Adventism. Martin to my knowledge was not anti-catholic.

theotokos.co.za/adventism/index.html

apologeticsindex.org/s18.html

dmoz.org/Society/Religion_and_Spirituality/Opposing_Views/Christianity/Seventh-day_Adventists/

66.199.248.138/web/203637/society/religion-and-spirituality/opposing-views/christianity/seventh-day-adventists/

homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.brace/early.htm

catholicsource.net/envoy.html


#19

HI Adventistnomore,

When starting a discussion with an Adventist friend, from the very beginning, what topic do you think is best to broach first? From a Catholic standpoint, it usually seems best to start with why we think the Catholic Church was the one founded by Christ. But with Adventists, do you think it is better to discuss sabbeth versus Sunday first?

Sincerely,

Maria1212


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