Anyone feel like never using NFP to avoid?


#1

This question is not meant to be argumentative at all; I'm just curious... Is anyone here not worried about preventing or spacing children altogether? Just leaving it all up to God and being happy with whatever happens? I guess I didn't realize before getting on this forum how many Catholics are using NFP to avoid pregnancy. Of course, I totally understand people's fears, especially medical ones, so I'm not saying people shouldn't be using NFP to avoid. I'm just wondering if I really am as strange as I'm beginning to think I am, in feeling like NFP is just not for me. I just love being ready for whatever God wants to throw (or not throw) my way, and so does my husband.

Does anyone else here feel this way?


#2

My parents never used it, and neither did my grandparents. I'm going to keep the tradition. :P


#3

You haven't been married all that long - I'd say wait until you have 3 or 4 kids, money is tight, and the car breaks down. Then you might start thinking let put off/we might be done. Your still in the honeymoon phase!


#4

:wave: We have been married almost 9 years, and decided together while preparing for marriage that we would learn a form of periodic continence only if we had something very serious come up after marriage. But we have never yet needed to either learn a method or practice it. We have been very blessed. My husband got a good reliable job soon after we conceived our oldest living son, and we live simply and as debt-free as possible.

We have 5 children, 7 y.o. to 7 months old.


#5

Well, we have a serious reason, so we must avoid pregnancy.

That said, how do you think babies are conceived? Do you think God makes a positive "choice" every time a sperm and egg meet and implantation occurs? He has a "plan" for each of us that involves the number of children a woman has, and children are only created as part of His plan.

Or, do you think that God created a biological process for us to use to be co-creators with him? The biological process simply works the way God created it - sometimes a child is created and sometimes a child is not created.


#6

Well, we have a serious reason, so we must avoid pregnancy.

That said, how do you think babies are conceived? Do you think God makes a positive "choice" every time a sperm and egg meet and implantation occurs? He has a "plan" for each of us that involves the number of children a woman has, and children are only created as part of His plan.

Or, do you think that God created a biological process for us to use to be co-creators with him? The biological process simply works the way God created it - sometimes a child is created and sometimes a child is not created.

Yes, I believe God makes a positive choice every time a child is conceived. Only God can create a soul; we can't.:)


#7

[quote="convert38, post:3, topic:230642"]
You haven't been married all that long - I'd say wait until you have 3 or 4 kids, money is tight, and the car breaks down. Then you might start thinking let put off/we might be done. Your still in the honeymoon phase!

[/quote]

You're right; we haven't been married very long! But, I have felt this way my whole life, which was a hard one throughout my childhood (poverty early on, abuse, divorce). I have found that my hardships only strengthen my trust in God all the more!


#8

[quote="kristleful, post:6, topic:230642"]
Yes, I believe God makes a positive choice every time a child is conceived. Only God can create a soul; we can't.:)

[/quote]

Does that mean God knew that the babies conceived when their mothers were taking thalidomide would have horrible defects and created them anyway? Why would He do that? How are children born through in vitro fertilization when the Church tells us God is against it? (In that case, either God is doing something He is against, or He really isn't against it. Neither of those seem plausible, do they?)

Why would God purposely create babies with birth defects? Babies that would have mental illness in childhood? Babies that would be killed by their parents?

It is indeed a mystery how a couple and God act as cocreators of human life. But, I think the couple can force God's hand, if you will.


#9

[quote="kristleful, post:1, topic:230642"]
This question is not meant to be argumentative at all; I'm just curious... Is anyone here not worried about preventing or spacing children altogether? Just leaving it all up to God and being happy with whatever happens? I guess I didn't realize before getting on this forum how many Catholics are using NFP to avoid pregnancy. Of course, I totally understand people's fears, especially medical ones, so I'm not saying people shouldn't be using NFP to avoid. I'm just wondering if I really am as strange as I'm beginning to think I am, in feeling like NFP is just not for me. I just love being ready for whatever God wants to throw (or not throw) my way, and so does my husband.

Does anyone else here feel this way?

[/quote]

We don't plan on using it. We have two little ones two (and a half) and under and we certainly have to pinch pennies to make ends meet (before anyone repeats the "wait until you feel the financial strain" comment!). We're a family of four at the moment making ends meet on $14,000 a year. But we do it!

A year ago we were in a cabin without indoor plumbing. Our little single wide trailer with two bathrooms is heaven now!

And really, I'm more and more grateful for the blessings in our life. My husband is in grad school full time and working and I run my little online etsy shop, but I have a feeling we'll always look back and be grateful for this time and all we've learned!

When expenses, like new tires, come up it can be stressful. But somehow things have a way of working out. I smiled at todays' gospel reading, because we very much have seen God's care as it was described in our lives.

As long as there aren't any major health concerns in the future I hope we never have to use NFP! :)


#10

My wife and I believe in letting God make the decisions...We have three children that are three years apart, and one on the way that will be nine years from the last one...I do believe though that we have NFP for a reason. Especially those who are known to have medical issues related with having children...I do believe that planning out when to have your children is a natural discipline...Even animals know when it is time to procreate based on the time of the year it is or other natural reasons...Therefore be abstinate when necessary. All it takes is discipline:)


#11

[quote="PaulinVA, post:8, topic:230642"]
Does that mean God knew that the babies conceived when their mothers were taking thalidomide would have horrible defects and created them anyway? Why would He do that? How are children born through in vitro fertilization when the Curch tells us God is against it? (In that case, either God is doing something He is against, or He really isn't against it. Neither of those seem plausible, do they?)

Why would God purposely create babies with birth defects? Babies that would have mental illness in childhood? Babies that would be killed by their parents?

It is indeed a mystery how a couple and God act as cocreators of human life. But, I think the couple can force God's hand, if you will.

[/quote]

As far as babies created through In Vitro, God brings good out of evil all the time. Just like when babies are conceived through rape. God certainly doesn't condone the rape just because He creates a baby's soul in the process. He also didn't condone people murdering His Son just because He used that to save mankind. There are many other examples, though I like that last one the best.:)

And yes, I do believe God still wills to create a child who will be born in suffering. God doesn't put a disease on someone on purpose, of course, because God can't will evil. But He allows it to happen while still willing the beautiful creation of a human life. Suffering and deformity do not diminish a person in the slightest. They will still have the opportunity to not only love and be loved here on Earth, but to enjoy heavenly bliss with God forever hereafter.


#12

[quote="RedSoxWife, post:9, topic:230642"]
We don't plan on using it. We have two little ones two (and a half) and under and we certainly have to pinch pennies to make ends meet (before anyone repeats the "wait until you feel the financial strain" comment!). We're a family of four at the moment making ends meet on $14,000 a year. But we do it!

A year ago we were in a cabin without indoor plumbing. Our little single wide trailer with two bathrooms is heaven now!

And really, I'm more and more grateful for the blessings in our life. My husband is in grad school full time and working and I run my little online etsy shop, but I have a feeling we'll always look back and be grateful for this time and all we've learned!

When expenses, like new tires, come up it can be stressful. But somehow things have a way of working out. I smiled at todays' gospel reading, because we very much have seen God's care as it was described in our lives.

As long as there aren't any major health concerns in the future I hope we never have to use NFP! :)

[/quote]

You are such an inspiration to me! This is exactly the level of faith I want to have. I am very encouraged when I hear how beautifully God takes care of those who trust Him, even though in the eyes of the secular world, you would be considered very unfortunate... That's part of what I find sad about our culture.

I love today's gospel reading, too! It's one of my absolute favorites.:D


#13

[quote="kristleful, post:11, topic:230642"]
As far as babies created through In Vitro, God brings good out of evil all the time.

[/quote]

Yes, but the line of reasoning you are pursuing is that God positively wills that in vitro baby to be born. How can God positively will something he is against?

It makes more sense to say that God ensouls babies when they are created, no matter how they are created or whether He thinks it's a "good idea" to have a baby at the time.

What you are saying is that you will not use NFP, and God will only "send" you the number of babies he wants you to have.

Taken to it's logical conclusion, you are saying that God will, while you are fertile, prevent egg and sperm from meeting if He doesn't want you to have a baby at that time. You are also saying to couples who can't conceive they are childless because God wants them to be childless. Ouch.


#14

[quote="PaulinVA, post:13, topic:230642"]
Yes, but the line of reasoning you are pursuing is that God positively wills that in vitro baby to be born. How can God positively will something he is against?

It makes more sense to say that God ensouls babies when they are created, no matter how they are created or whether He thinks it's a "good idea" to have a baby at the time.

What you are saying is that you will not use NFP, and God will only "send" you the number of babies he wants you to have.

Taken to it's logical conclusion, you are saying that God will, while you are fertile, prevent egg and sperm from meeting if He doesn't want you to have a baby at that time. You are also saying to couples who can't conceive they are childless because God wants them to be childless. Ouch.

[/quote]

One way I recently heard it explained was the God willed the rules to be this way and wills that he is basically bound by those rules (although they exist only because he made them).

On the infertility front I wouldn't say that God wills them to be childless, but that he does allow us endure trials, just as Christ suffered. That suffering can cause different reactions in different people, but hopefully it draws us nearer to God.

It is such a hard topic though...


#15

[quote="kristleful, post:12, topic:230642"]
You are such an inspiration to me! This is exactly the level of faith I want to have. I am very encouraged when I hear how beautifully God takes care of those who trust Him, even though in the eyes of the secular world, you would be considered very unfortunate... That's part of what I find sad about our culture.

I love today's gospel reading, too! It's one of my absolute favorites.:D

[/quote]

Thank you. I do still certainly have my stressed out moments, but I'm much less stressed out trusting in God than I would be resisting Him! And as we've learned to juggle things and trust in Him, everything has just sort of worked out! Without God's grace though, there's no way I could even imagine trying to get through some days. With his Grace and a few deep breaths everything always seems to work out! Now if only I could really not stress about things, knowing that! I'm definitely still a work in progress!


#16

[quote="PaulinVA, post:13, topic:230642"]
Yes, but the line of reasoning you are pursuing is that God positively wills that in vitro baby to be born. How can God positively will something he is against?

It makes more sense to say that God ensouls babies when they are created, no matter how they are created or whether He thinks it's a "good idea" to have a baby at the time.

What you are saying is that you will not use NFP, and God will only "send" you the number of babies he wants you to have.

Taken to it's logical conclusion, you are saying that God will, while you are fertile, prevent egg and sperm from meeting if He doesn't want you to have a baby at that time. You are also saying to couples who can't conceive they are childless because God wants them to be childless. Ouch.

[/quote]

There is a difference between willing a baby to exist, and willing the particular method that was used. It is the method of In Vitro that is immoral---not the baby itself.

Yes, I do believe God can do anything and can therefore prevent the egg and sperm from meeting in my fertile time if He doesn't will a baby to be created at the time. It's not very hard to do; it's already happened three months in a row, since I've had relations each month since I've been married during my fertile times and no baby was conceived.

I don't know God's reasoning in allowing a couple to remain infertile. I pray that it does not happen to me, unless it is God's will that I remain childless. I accept that that may be God's plan for me, and I feel great sorrow and awe in the face of those couples that struggle through that pain.


#17

I and my wife do not plan to use NFP to avoid, we did use it to conceive and it has been very effective so far :slight_smile:


#18

[quote="RedSoxWife, post:14, topic:230642"]
One way I recently heard it explained was the God willed the rules to be this way and wills that he is basically bound by those rules (although they exist only because he made them).

[/quote]

Yes, He made His decision when He made the rules. They work the way He wants them to work.

On the infertility front I wouldn't say that God wills them to be childless, but that he does allow us endure trials, just as Christ suffered. That suffering can cause different reactions in different people, but hopefully it draws us nearer to God.

It is such a hard topic though...

I agree. Couples are childless for a variety of reasons. But, the reasons are natural, not supernatural.

My wife and I are older (kids are teens/twenties), but earlier I can remember living paycheck to paycheck and always having just enough. We would get an unexpected check in - insurance rebate or something like that - and brace ourselves for some emergency that would take that exact amount.


#19

Infertile couples are merely apparently infertile. I wouldn't be so quick to doubt the power of God or his mysterious ways. Fertility is not in our hands, nor to be demonstrated as if it is. True, God may ask us to carry the cross of abstinence for whatever his reason might be (and you certainly have the choice of violating that), but the ultimate authority lies with God, not the world. 100% of the time God tolerates our suffering, the good outweighs the bad.


#20

[quote="PaulinVA, post:5, topic:230642"]
Well, we have a serious reason, so we must avoid pregnancy.

That said, how do you think babies are conceived? Do you think God makes a positive "choice" every time a sperm and egg meet and implantation occurs? He has a "plan" for each of us that involves the number of children a woman has, and children are only created as part of His plan.

Or, do you think that God created a biological process for us to use to be co-creators with him? The biological process simply works the way God created it - sometimes a child is created and sometimes a child is not created.

[/quote]

Paul, I think that you and I are on the same page with regard to God/parents/babies. Though it has been a very long time since I was in the position of having to decide whether to use NFP or not, it is still a subject that I find of great interest, particularly the moral and philosophical aspects.

I believe that God allows human parents to take part in His creation through human biological processes, but not that He decides when conception will or will not occur in each and every instance, though He does infuse each newly conceived human with an immortal soul.

We are all subject to the ramifications of original sin and the sorrow and imperfection that entered the world as a result; thus, miscarriages happen and some babies are born with birth defects. We have also been given free will, and the bad choices we often make lead to babies conceived out of wedlock, born addicted to crack, or at low birth weight. These things happen due to our fallen nature.

I also believe that God answers prayer - sometimes with a "yes", sometimes a "no" - and that He is not a disinterested party to what happens in our lives. Hence, women thought infertile sometimes conceive, and babies predicted to be born with infirmities are sometimes not.

If a couple believes they can adequately (not necessarily lavishly) provide for a large family and chooses not to use NFP, more power to them. I think, however, that "leaving it up to God" is more accurately "leaving it up to natural biological processes created by God", in most instances (allowing for the occasional miraculous intervention, which I fully acknowledge.) This approach requires us to take full responsibility for the results of our own actions - something that we all must do, in any aspect of our lives, as mature Christians.


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