Anyone heard of the Oddfellows organization??


#1

Hello all.

I started this same thread in the Misc. Forum with no response so here i go again.

My God-daughter emailed me this morning asking me about the Oddfellows and the female version of the Oddfellows called the Rebbeckah’s. Before she converted 4 years ago, she attended weekly Rebbeckah meetings, but stopped only because RCIA was on the same night. She has now asked me if there was any reason she should not rejoin this group. I don’t know anything about the Oddfellows. I thought they were a branch of the Mason’s. I understood (maybe incorrectly) that the Mason’s were extremely anti-Catholic.

I don’t know how to answer her question and I don’t want to throw up red flags for no reason so I just told her I would see what I could find out. Could someone please help me?

Thank you!

Deanna


#2

Don’t know specifics on Oddfellows.

But if they are associated with the Mason’s you would be correct to discourage her from participating. Many of these organizations, while consisting of many wonderful members, and frequently accomplishing great works of Charity, have membership guidelines that include anti-Catholic teachings, not the least of which would be “it doesn’t matter what religion one follows, all are equally valid.”

While we strive to live side by side with our seperated bretheren, it would be wrong for a Catholic to accept as truth that all religions are equal. We are all called to Proclaim the Gospel in the fullness of it’s truth.

The Catholic Church is the Fullness of that Truth.

Hope this helps in some obscure way.

God Bless you for taking your responsibility as God Father serious enough that she knows she can ask you and you will seek to provide good council. I hope you get the answer you seek.

CARose


#3

I don’t really know a whole lot about them w/ the exception of my mother being a Rebecca and my father was a Mason and made BIG time fun of her…:eek:
The woman’s [font=Verdana]equivalency of the [/font]Masons is The Eastern Stars.
So I guess the answer is no I don’t think that the Oddfellows are Masons. Annunciata:)


#4

Found this:

ioof.org/rebekah_degree.htm
ioof.org/rebekah_degree.htm


#5

[quote=CARose]…But if they are associated with the Mason’s you would be correct to discourage her from participating. Many of these organizations, while consisting of many wonderful members, and frequently accomplishing great works of Charity, have membership guidelines that include anti-Catholic teachings, not the least of which would be “it doesn’t matter what religion one follows, all are equally valid.”
[/quote]

Are they saying that anyone, regardless of religion, can become a Mason? Or that one’s religion doesn’t affect one’s afterlife possibilities?


#6

Basically an organization such as this one doesn’t necessarily have a religious component to it. Probably most don’t.

Their own literature should explain the principles upon which they were organtized and under which they function.

For instance, the Boy Scouts require one to believe in God. If that’s all they say one the subject it is not a problem for Catholics, because we believe in God.

If the Boy Scouts say “we don’t care what what church you attend, to us all are equally valid” that’s still OK because it is an expression of tolerance. They are not saying that we must accept that all religions are equally valid, they are only saying that for their purposes we are as welcome as the next guy.

The problem with the Masons (and possibly some other groups) is that they are teaching religious precepts in their organization, they cross the line religiously. Some of the things they teach as necessary for membership and advancement are in direct conflict with Catholic teaching and we cannot believe more than one thing at a time. They take the position that Catholicism obscures Truth, and we likewise take the position that they obscure Truth. We cannot in good conscience assent to these secret teachings and remain Catholics.

The reasons that there are special warnings about the Masons relate to the fact that they are promoted as a social organization and not readily identifiable as a church to most people.

I don’t know about the Oddfellows but I am certain that they arose out of the dominant Protestant American culture of the 19th century. That does not put them in the same category as Masons automatically, because many of these groups were started as alternatives to the Masons (as were the Knights of Columbus, incidentally).

One other point, in a secular organization that is not directly associated with a church or secret “teachings” one is likely to find bigots. Bowling leagues, labor unions and professional groups (as well as the Boy Scouts :smiley: ) can be like that. Most of the membership could be personally anti-Catholic in the local lodge, but if that is not the offical position of the national organization, what you have is just a bunch of local jerks.


#7

[quote=Deanna]Hello all.

I started this same thread in the Misc. Forum with no response so here i go again.

My God-daughter emailed me this morning asking me about the Oddfellows and the female version of the Oddfellows called the Rebbeckah’s. Before she converted 4 years ago, she attended weekly Rebbeckah meetings, but stopped only because RCIA was on the same night. She has now asked me if there was any reason she should not rejoin this group. I don’t know anything about the Oddfellows. I thought they were a branch of the Mason’s. I understood (maybe incorrectly) that the Mason’s were extremely anti-Catholic.

I don’t know how to answer her question and I don’t want to throw up red flags for no reason so I just told her I would see what I could find out. Could someone please help me?

Thank you!

Deanna
[/quote]

Dear Deanna - I DID find your other post in the Misc. Forum ( too late, it seems ) and tried to explain not only the masons, oddfellows, etc. , but why men’s fraternal organizations exist - what they are and aren’t. And why paranoia is unjustified.

But - I’m NOT gonna repeat it again here, however just use the SEARCH option on the homepage, type in Oddfellows, and pick the first choice of the two offered…

Oddfellows is a fraternal organization - NOT a religion.

It is NOT secret society- the lodge in my hometown has a very big Coca Cola sign out front - it even lights up.

Their phone number is in the Southwestern Bell phone book.

They cook hamburgers and hot dogs on the 4th of July, and help people whose mobile homes burn down or get blown away in tornadoes without fanfare or recognition in the community.

The Masons have a similar building, with a big sign outside, phone number printed in the book. If you’re ultra-curious, you can order a membership roster from the Grand Memorial Temple in Waco and see for yourself that neither Bush is a Mason. The latest excitment in that lodge was when someone burned the lasagne and they had to open the windows to let all of the smoke out!

They aren’t a religion either - nor do they wish to be or claim to be or pretend to be. I am one, and I know. I have written some lengthy discussions of Freemasonry if you’ll run a SEARCH on this forum homepage for National Treasure ( the current movie ), or look for it under the Water Cooler forum -

They’re various pieces, trying to keep good Catholics from panic, stampede and calling up the bishop with needless concern.

Unfortunately, what I’ve read in these forums is very much like the 5 blind men - each feeling of and trying to describe an elephant.

Otherwise, Odds and ends of Canon Law, but mostly hearsay and fear - or what nuns told 'em in Catholic school.

I’m a published Masonic writer and scholar - ask me if you wish - my only promise to you can be: If I don’t know the answer, I won’t be like a typical man and tell you something that I made up ! And YES - I WILL stop on the highway and ask for directions when hopelessly lost ! http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Any wives out there with husbands who’ll admit to doing that ?

Someone in this thread ( see above) offered oddfellow links - try 'em or do a Google search. www.masonicinfo.com is a level-headed place to begin for the Masons - I have no problems with what this brother has to say on his website - and that’s saying a mouthful ! It’s a refreshing site.

Have a Happy and Holy Advent 2004, Deanna - and to each of you…


#8

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

Declaration on Masonic Associations

“The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.”

The position of the Church remains unchanged since this was issued in 1983.

JMJ Jay


#9

The formation of quasi-secret societies within the Church is equally fascinating:

home.earthlink.net/~grossklas/sspxgetssick.htm


#10

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS

Issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on November 26, 1983.

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 [1981] pp. 240-241).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

JOSEPH Card. RATZINGER

Prefect

  • Fr. JEROME HAMER, O.P.

Titular Archbishop of Lorium

Secretary


#11

[quote=jamesclaude]I’m a published Masonic writer and scholar - ask me if you wish - my only promise to you can be: If I don’t know the answer, I won’t be like a typical man and tell you something that I made up !
[/quote]

If you won’t make it up, then why are you here saying that getting involved with the Masons is harmless, when the Church strictly forbids it?
And yes, unsuspecting Masons may do little more than host dinners and hold fraternal meetings, but as a member ascends in the degrees, he is given secrets and he is required to make pledges and promises which are strictly against Catholic teachings.
The Masonic order is a very anti-Catholic secret society ~ with a very benign public facade.


#12

[quote=Panis Angelicas]If you won’t make it up, then why are you here saying that getting involved with the Masons is harmless, when the Church strictly forbids it? .
[/quote]

LOL… if you looked at his profile, he is a Anglican… and VERY welcome here, and welcome to express his opinion about the harmlessness of Freemasonry.

[quote=Panis Angelicas]And yes, unsuspecting Masons may do little more than host dinners and hold fraternal meetings, but as a member ascends in the degrees, he is given secrets and he is required to make pledges and promises which are strictly against Catholic teachings…
[/quote]

Really? Pray tell, what degrees does this happen in and what “secrets” is he given that are strictly against Catholic teachings. Tell me, is it the handshake, the signs of recognition, or the secret passwords? All of which, BTW, can hardly be considered secret since they can be found in nearly any library :wink:

[quote=Panis Angelicas]The Masonic order is a very anti-Catholic secret society ~ with a very benign public facade.
[/quote]

ROTFL… Secret society ehh?? So secret that we all know about them? They must not be very good at running a “SECRET SOCIETY” are they? LOL Tell me, blue lodge freemasonry consists of three degrees, in which degree does the anti-catholicism begin?

Or are you referring to the other appendent bodies such as the Scottish Rite, York Rite, or Shrine, which are all “extra” and above and beyond being a mason? Finally, what masonic authority teaches and approves these terrible anti-catholic teachings?

The Catholic Church recently apologized for their involvement in the sacking and murdering of thousands in Constantinople… perhaps the Church is not always infallible in characterizing organizations/people it does not understand or that it has historically opposed? Let see… the Sack of Constatinople was in the 1000’s? Maybe in a thousand years or so, the church will apologize to the Freemasons?

It pains me that so many people will point to a document of the church for their position and then turn off their brains! Healing is brought about by recognition of a mistake or unfair label.

Just a couple of thoughts… peace!!

Brandon
(Previously a 3rd degree Freemason, 32nd Degree Scottish Rite, and Shriner.)


#13

Actually they didn’t. The Pope knew nothing about the sacking of Constantinople until AFTER it had been done. He was horrified. The Orthodox have not yet apologized for their cooperation in the persecution of Catholics in Communist Eastern Europe. That happened just a few years ago, not centuries. Likewise the Masons have not apologized for their anti-Catholic activities. For example in Mexico they executed plenty of Catholics including priests and religious. Bl. Miguel Agustin Pro pray for us. Viva Christo Rey!


#14

"When one reaches the 30th degree in the masonic hierarchy, called the Kadosh, the person crushes with his foot the papal tiara and the royal crown, and swears to free mankind "from the bondage of despotism and the thraldom of spiritual tyranny…


A candidate makes an oath to Freemasonry and its secrets under pain of death or self-mutilation by kneeling blindfolded in front of the altar, placing both hands on the volume of sacred law (perhaps the Bible), the square and the compass, and repeating after the ‘worshipful master.’"


clearlightcatholic.com/masonic/whataremasons.htm



#15

[quote=Panis Angelicas]If you won’t make it up, then why are you here saying that getting involved with the Masons is harmless, when the Church strictly forbids it?
And yes, unsuspecting Masons may do little more than host dinners and hold fraternal meetings, but as a member ascends in the degrees, he is given secrets and he is required to make pledges and promises which are strictly against Catholic teachings.
The Masonic order is a very anti-Catholic secret society ~ with a very benign public facade.
[/quote]

Dear PA -

I’m a step below the 33rd Degree ( 32, Knight Commander of the Court of Honour ) - and about to be installed as Master of the Texas Lodge of Research in March.

Alas, I’m also a poor Anglican, and out of reach of excommunication, but very much a practicing “catholic” - 7 sacraments, bells and smells, etc…

P A - You MUST have** more** to back up what you’re saying than having heard some nun say it in Catholic School !

Is there a Jesuit handy ? They’ll tell you that you just can’t go around saying whatever somebody heard somebody say…

It’s NOT good scholarship, not to mention being quite inconsiderate !

I’ve never taken a vow in all 32 degrees which has violated my Confirmation or faith in Jesus Christ.

My algebra teacher always made us “prove our work” - it applies to all areas of our lives - AND what we say…


#16

James,
You might want to respond to what has been stated about the 30th degree or what I said about Masonic anti-Catholicism.


#17

[quote=cestusdei]James,
You might want to respond to what has been stated about the 30th degree or what I said about Masonic anti-Catholicism.
[/quote]

Oh, I might ? The 'ol dog and pony show, huh ?

I’ll think about it.

Wiith so many experts on the subject, it might be best to defer and just see how much more nonsense flows down horse hockey mountain…


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