APA false teaching..Homosexuals can change

There is not just one saying that Homosexuals can change. There are many.

Come gather round people wherever you roam for the times they are a changing…


Thursday, 07 June 2012 09:54

Former APA President Says Homosexuals Can Change

Yet he also flatly stated that homosexuals can change, and that the current stance of the APA that homosexuals cannot change is false.

“I’ve experienced more than one,” he said. In the past, he has said 20 percent of the homosexuals who came to him to change did so.

Cummings said he had to “latch on” to a patient’s determination, such as that energized by their religion. But he said the “gay rights” movement and others claim these patients should leave their religion and accept their “lifestyle.” Those who push for patients to dump their desire to stop the erotopathic, he said, do not respect the patients’ psychological needs.

Cummings said some homosexuals leave their lifestyle and return, much like “falling off the wagon” in a manner similar to an alcoholic or drug addict. But “there are successes.”


Homosexuals can Change

Cannot change what—behavior or orientation? Many homosexuals have changed not only their behavior but also their orientation (desires).

Thousands of ex-homosexuals testify of their change, and renowned Columbia University psychiatrist, Dr. Robert Spitzer, documented some of those changes.


A recent position paper of the Catholic Medical Association and an article in the secular journal Professional Psychology, published last month by the American Psychological Association, make the same point. Both cite current medical research and clinical experiences to conclude that homosexuality is not a fixed characteristic and that motivated patients respond well to therapy.


Can Homosexuals Change?

Bible Answer: Absolutely yes! If you can’t change, then nobody can change.


Our Mission
To support and guide men who seek to transition away from unwanted homosexuality, by courageously and compassionately sharing our own first-hand experience with change. We also provide information and support to friends and family, especially wives.

It is drivel and nonsense to accept that change is not possible. It may not be possible for all but it is possible for some and if for some then this breaks the icon of born this way…no way out…

I can change, you can change…we can all change…do you believe you can change?

1 & 4 are about behaviour.

2 has the issue that the study it heavily draws on was retracted because the authour felt that he drew faulty conclusions from his data and when you remove that stuff it is only about behaviour.

3 has some bizarre stuff, for example someone having been in a marriage does not mean they were sexually attracted to the opposite sex. The only very positive ones seem to be anecdotal (1-2 subjects isn’t a study)

5 isn’t much of anything.

People choose to be gay because they’re just hipster and think it’s cool and Lady Gaga makes them do it because she’s cool.

Of course they can change but we live in an evil society that wants to embrace this stuff.

Human sexuality is not who we are…our sexual desires and fulfillment of those desires takes up a miniscule amount of our lifetimes in compairson to how much time we spend doing anything else you can think of. I have difficulty understanding how a persons sex drive has become “who they are”. This is the biggest lie of all time. We all have tendencies or fleeting thoughts about a myriad of subjects. What we CHOOSE to do is who we really are. Life is about choices. Free will is always there. To say that any person cannot exercise free will at any time or on any subject is simply a huge lie. We are tempted in so many ways to commit sins of the flesh, sins against the Holy Spirit, breaking any one or all of the ten commandments. These are all choices we make every day. A person’s sexual desires are just that. A desire is something we want or would like. There is no law of nature that can prove that a person does not have control with their own will. Each one of us makes choices and will be accountable for our actions.

Do I believe in a God that is powerful enough to change someone’s sexual orientation? Of course. Do I think He does it for everyone? No. I simply know too many gay people who spent too much of their lives begging God to change them and the answer continued to be “No”.

The bottom line is that this idea is used over and over as excuse to treat gay people poorly, and that is only keeping gay people away from the Church. If the real goal is to lead people to Christ, how is this furthering that goal? If however, the real goal is to make sure that the Church has as few gay people as members as possible, then continuing to insist that this change is possible and even demanded for them will probably do a great job.

I don’t think the Church prescribes to this line of thinking >_>

The church teaches that it is possible for a person to control and redirect their desires. This is not changing the orientation, but rather developing a degree of self-mastery. It is similar in nature to alcoholics who overcome their desire to drink, or sexual addicts who learn to control their urge for sex. We are not demanding that they change their orientation (in fact, we’re not demanding anything of gays, only telling them of the Truth and helping them accept and practice it), we just ask gay Catholics to control their urges exactly as we ask heterosexual Catholics to control theirs.

If you have seen a Catholic treating a gay person poorly, then they are not living by the tenants of our Religion. We are called to treat everyone as brothers and sisters, whether they be saint or sinner, and homosexual persons are no exception to this rule. We do not have to condone their lifestyle, but not condoning is a far cry from condemning them or driving them away. If a gay person chooses to leave the church it is not because the church has driven them away, but rather it is because they are unwilling to accept God’s laws and live a life dedicated to Him.

Do you know the history of how the APA changed homosexuality from listing it as aberrant behavior to ‘normal?’ quite eye-opening.

Great work by Catholic professionals in helping homosexuals become chased, curing, treating and preventing homosexuality found in this CNA article:


Fr. Harvey’s Courage support groups now exist in 29 U.S. dioceses and have spread to six countries abroad. Most of the participants are adults, but some younger people take part. Fr. Harvey held a conference for Catholic youth leaders in November 1998. He hopes that “each diocese will begin to take this question more seriously and organize [its] own little conference on it and find ways of helping teenagers to get into spiritual support groups and learn to be chaste.”

Fr. Harvey has said he used to believe that “people couldn’t get out of” the homosexual condition. But he changed his mind, partly because "two of the first five members of Courage came out of the condition - and they weren’t even seeking to come out of it. " The main emphasis of Courage is still on helping its members be chaste through prayer, the sacraments, sound spiritual direction, and a twelve-step program patterned on Alcoholics Anonymous. Fr. Harvey does not think Courage members should feel obliged to seek a change in the condition itself. Therapy is not cheap, after all, and there are no guarantees that it will work in a given case, but he believes that those who want to seek a change in sexual tendency should be encouraged to do so. He and other experts think that teenagers have an above average chance of changing, so it is crucial for families to be aware of available resources, including therapists who specialize in this area (see box)

Dr. Fitzgibbons claims a high recovery rate among teenagers he works with, especially “those who really are willing to work” and who “have not become sexually addicted.” He emphasizes healing the emotional pain his patients have suffered. “As that emotional pain is healed,” he says, homosexual attractions usually “diminish and resolve completely.” Fitzgibbons stresses a spiritual approach and one that encourages patients to forgive those who have harmed them in the past, including playmates who taunted and rejected them. He realizes, as he notes in an appendix to Fr. Harvey’s The Truth About Homosexuality, that in some cases “the person has been wounded so deeply that he cannot forgive,” so he “asks God to forgive or to remove his anger.” Such “spiritual forgiveness,” Fitzgibbons says, is “particularly effective with those who were severely scapegoated by peers; profoundly betrayed by a parent, sibling, or spouse; or sexually abused.”

Fitzgibbons also encourages Catholics to use prayer and the sacraments. Those whose human fathers have failed them can develop “their relationship with God the Father as their other loving and caring father at every life stage. His love diminishes their feelings of being cheated and makes it much easier to let go of resentment toward their fathers.” He also encourages them to be aware of “Jesus as a best friend and brother” and of “Mary as another loving mother.”

Nicolosi uses reparative therapy to help male homosexuals who want to change. Using Moberly’s insight about defensive detachment from the same-sex parent, he tries to repair the break by helping the patient recover his lost male identity. To this end it is essential, he believes, for a man to develop nonsexual friendships with other men, which will “demystify” other males and help the client resume the process - interrupted when he was a child - of finding his male identity. Nicolosi is certainly not an aloof therapist in the classic tradition. That, he has written, “is precisely what the homosexual client cannot tolerate. He experienced hurt from a toodistant father, and he now desires and requires authentic personal contact.” This is what he gets from Nicolosi, who often gives practical advice about developing masculine identity and self-confidence.

When Nicolosi first worked in this area, most of his clients were “in their late 20s to early 30s,” he said in an interview, “but now they’re coming younger … and I’ve had them as young as 12.” He believes that reparative therapy can work for teens, but only when “the teenager himself is motivated.” While his professional writing describes his approach in secular terms, Nicolosi believes that religious faith “furthers the therapy.”


That story is told here with links to the NPR report…Alex Speigel’s grandfather was one of the homosexual psychiatrists…

81 Words, a 2002 episode of NPR’s This American Life that was recently rebroadcast, tells the story behind the removal of the homosexuality diagnosis from the DSM-II in 1973. You can download the audio or read a transcript of the show here: part 1, part 2.


Each one of us in control of our own sexuality. We, and only we, decide when to act on it, gay or straight. For heterosexuals, chastity is possible, but today, I think, the media is sending the message that anything goes and it’s OK. Homosexuals can also control their own sexuality, and change. Even though the media is trying to normalize gay sexual behavior as OK.



Thank you captain obvious for telling us something we all know and is effectively irrelevant to the topic.


Wonder if that is the same as or similar to this…

Is it just the APA that decided it wasn’t a disorder? I thought it was all the other organisations in the US with any expertise in the matter as well. Those gays must certainly be persuasive to convince all of them.

And after they finished in the US, they must have gone to the UK to persuade all their organisations as well. And still not content, they did Australia too. Then other countries in Europe which would include…well, it’ll be quicker to say all of them, actually. No need to list all the organisations in all the countries, is there? That would be silly.

But let’s face it. They couldn’t get everywhere and there are some reputable organisations in some respectable countries where those pesky homosexuals haven’t been able to pull the wool over the eyes of the experts. I’ve got a list here:

The Iranian Psychological Association, the Algerian Psychiatric Society, the Libyan Association of Psychological Health, the Zimbabwe Psychological Association, the Zambian Psychological Association, the Botswana Association for Psychological rehabilitation, the Kuwaiti Psychiatric Society, the Saudi Educational and Psychological Association. The Department of Psychiatry, Burma.

There’s a few more as well. If you need a larger list to help prove some sort of point, I’ll let you have them.

I have a couple of homosexual friends. One of them has stated that he believes that he is homosexual because when he was a boy his mother ‘sold him’ to a man so the man could essentially rape him. This happened in a 3rd world country where I think such things are not as uncommon as they are in the USA.

In my experience in life and studying psychology which has been a passion of mine for the past 25+ years I have found that at least in a large minority of the small sample size of homosexual people who I have known have the common thread in their life of growing up in a household dominated by a female with other females being around a lot and making up the social mileau of the home. Such as the mother and all of the boys several aunt’s being present in the home a lot socializing without a strong male presence.

It has left me to wonder if ‘effeminate’ behavior was somehow encouraged in the male child, in addition to there not being a strong male figure in the house (there frequently was a male figure/father who was distant from the male child). Does this contribute towards a male growing up to be homosexual? I don’t know.

I have also become aware of males who engage in homosexual behavior both as bi-sexual and as self identified homosexual who have been raped by males. One man was very masculine, he came from a family of many boys who were known as the toughest in the town, fighters who were all bullies. I met the wife of one of these boys when we were adults and she told me she found him engaging in sex with a male prostitute in thier bed. If I had not hear this from her, and heard it as a rumor, I would have found it extremely unlikely to believe based on the way the boys behaved in high school, etc. But she told me that rapes by uncles and I think also the older siblings to the younger siblings was a part of their upbringing.

What to make of this, I don’t know. I do think that the APA removed homosexuality from their DSM (book that lists all psychiatric diagnosis, and the criteria used to make the diagnosis) under social pressure and not purely because they discovered new information that was not available prior to the removal of it as a psychiatric disorder. I am fairly confident it was removed because of social/political reasons/pressure and not because of pure scientific knowledge.

What is your hypothesis/understanding of how and why it was changed from a psychiatric disorder to not one?

It’s all here:



In the case of the APA, there was no compelling evidence to show that it was a medical disorder.

Why do you think that all major reputable organisations on the planet with expertise in that area do not consider it as a disorder?

Or do you know some (other than the ones I mentioned) that do?

Is it possible for you to summarize? I read through the link above that walks readers through the internal group of gay psychiatrists and some pressure from gay rights groups, how psychoanalysis was on the outs and the diangosings of gayness as a disease stemmed from Freud and psychoanalysis, etc…

It really makes no difference to me one way or the other what the actual correct facts are surrounding why it was removed. But I"m still under the impression that it was removed based on social/political reasons and not because someone discovered a gay gene.

If someone could summarize what the book has to say, or shed some light on how it’s removeal came to pass (info other than in the link I referred to) I would be interested in hearing about it.


I hope the following helps:



I hope this helps.


Note that it actually talks about the studies it sites.

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