Apologetics for athiests


#1

Almost all apologetics is directed toward God loving Christians or lukewarm christians. Are there materials for speaking to athiests? Any recommendations for a highly educated scientist who doesn’t believe in God?


#2

[quote=aj10]Almost all apologetics is directed toward God loving Christians or lukewarm christians. Are there materials for speaking to athiests? Any recommendations for a highly educated scientist who doesn’t believe in God?
[/quote]

A lot of people recommend Mere Christianity by C. S Lewis, although I don’t know how effective it is. It’s also a very interesting books for us Catholics to read through. I found Lewis’s arguments for God’s existence quite compelling.


#3

[quote=ktm]A lot of people recommend Mere Christianity by C. S Lewis, although I don’t know how effective it is. It’s also a very interesting books for us Catholics to read through. I found Lewis’s arguments for God’s existence quite compelling.
[/quote]

Also consider G.K. Chesterton’s wonderful book,

The Everlasting Man

That book had a profound effect on auothor C.S. Lewis [based upon statements by Lewis himself], whom the previous poster mentioned, and helped him tremendously in his conversion to Chrstianity.

Here is a free-to-read online edition of Chesterton’s masterpiece:

dur.ac.uk/martin.ward/gkc/books/everlasting_man.html

Note well that this work will really appeal to some atheists (even ones that don’t find his arguments convincing), others will balk at it – Chesterton’s style and writing is certainly not universally loved.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA


#4

Any recommendations for a highly educated scientist who doesn’t believe in God?

Yes. He should stop looking for scientific evidence of God. God is not hiding under a microscope or at the end of a telescope. God is not hiding on another planet or in a petri dish. God is to be found where He is always hiding … in the depths of the human heart.


#5

*Are there materials for speaking to athiests? *

Absolutely. There are many. The most interesting of late is psychologist Paul Vitz’ Faith of the Fatherless. A must read that few atheists seem to have heard of. But before discussing the book with atheists, they need to have read it clean through.


#6

[quote=Carl]Any recommendations for a highly educated scientist who doesn’t believe in God?

Yes. He should stop looking for scientific evidence of God. God is not hiding under a microscope or at the end of a telescope. God is not hiding on another planet or in a petri dish. God is to be found where He is always hiding … in the depths of the human heart.
[/quote]

While what you say is certainly true, that God is found in the depths of our heart, I would like to say He can indeed be found by searching the heights and depths of science. I have an honors degree in BioChemistry from an excellent University and I can certainly say that it was my study of science that assisted in bringing me closer to God. As I learned of such Physics Theories as Entropy (all things tend naturally towards a more random state) I began to realize that the grand beauty of the order of things, such as the molecular structure of DNA, could not be explained as tending towards greater randomness.

At the same time, God will not force anyone to receive any of His Graces, Faith included. And again at the same time, if we only open our hearts to Him, and seek him in our world, whether it be a scientific emphasized world or a religious setting, God is present and will make His presence known to those who seek him.

It hasn’t worked yet, God time, not mine, but I have suggested to my youngest brother, who unfortunately is currently Atheist, that he ask in a simple prayer that if God exists, that He make Himself known. This has happened for my unbaptised cousin who knows that God exists, although he is as yet uncertain how He is to be defined and if there is a specific religion which teaches His truths better than others.

I would love it anyone reading this would say a prayer for Kevin and all the other atheists who have yet to know and love God. And a prayer for Paco and all the others who have begun to recognize God in the world around them, that they might take their love for God and bring it to fruition through an acceptance that the fullness of the Truth can be found in the Church founded by Christ Himself. May they come to understand that Christ was sent to us by God, of God so that our sins might be forgiven and that He left us with the Holy Catholic Church so that we might always have a way of correctly interpreting the Word of God and a faculty for receiving the Graces necessary for our salvation, as provided through the sacraments.

We ask these things though Christ Our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, One God, Forever and Ever, Amen.

CARose


#7

While what you say is certainly true, that God is found in the depths of our heart, I would like to say He can indeed be found by searching the heights and depths of science.

And, while he Antony Flew, is not yet fully there:
Science Gives Famous Athiest Faith in God


#8

[quote=aj10]. . . Any recommendations for a highly educated scientist who doesn’t believe in God?
[/quote]

[right]JMJ + OBT[/right]

I would also like to recommend . . .

The Road of Science and the Ways to God
[indent]by Stanely Jaki[/indent]

That book is out-of-print, but here is a link to it on Amazon.com:

amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0226391450/qid=1105592377/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-6906622-0531044?v=glance&s=books

Or you could try to find it via a used books online shopping center like abebooks.com:

dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=377470474
(this is a link to a particular copy available for purchase; try the search engine yoursefl to turn up more copies)

Please note, this book is not at all an easy read. I purchased a copy for my father – well educated in the sciences, struggling with belief in God – for Christmas and thumbed through it before wrapping it up as a present to put under the tree. Wow! I had thought the following review, excerpted from Amazon.com, was an exaggeration, but it’s not:

Reviewer: A reader
Don’t try to read more than two paragraphs at a time or your head will explode. Stanley Jaki is mandatory for folks interested in history, philosophy, religion, or just being obnoxiously well read and well thought out. If you’ve read this book, you’re ready to go on to other subjects and other languages. You’re done with English. Highly recommended.

Let me know what you think.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA


#9

Another recommendation for those with a scientific bent. The Creator and the Cosmos. While it is not Catholic, it does a fine job of pointing out the obviousness of God. My physician brother-in-law recommended this book to my DH, who is an engineer, and it really helped him a lot.


#10

I didn’t read this thread thoroughly; so apologize if someone else has already mentioned it. I found Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Peter Kreeft and Ronald K. Tacelli quite good on basic questions about God.


#11

Here is an idea. STOP TRYING TO CONVERT US!!! When you guys leave little notes and books in our lockers and on our desks, it really gets to be annoying.


#12

Physical evidence can never prove or disprove the existence of God. The decision to believe that God exists (or that he doesn’t) takes place before any evidence is considered, and all evidence is seen in light of the choice made. Anyone, atheist or Christian, who disagrees, is fooling himself.

This is why people refer to faith as a grace.

The CCC says:


(844)…Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.


My suggestion when discussing religion with an atheist is to keep in mind that on some level the atheist is facing “ultimate despair”. Do not attempt to prove that God exists or does not exist. Instead, make him recognize this ultimate despair in himself, show him that you are completely free of that despair, and then show him why. Keep in mind that he is suppressing this despair because otherwise it would overwhelm him, and he is probably not aware of it on a conscious level. Also he is prideful and does not want to admit he is wrong, or that he must subject himself to God for any reason – even if it’s for his own good.

There, that’s my suggestion, for what it’s worth.


#13

[quote=aj10]Almost all apologetics is directed toward God loving Christians or lukewarm christians. Are there materials for speaking to athiests? Any recommendations for a highly educated scientist who doesn’t believe in God?
[/quote]

Here’s one that doesn’t require a huge investment of time (upper right-hand corner of page):

peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm


#14

[quote=Sean O L]And, while he Antony Flew, is not yet fully there:
Science Gives Famous Athiest Faith in God
[/quote]

These are the books that reportedly led to his change of view:

thewonderoftheworld.com/

geraldschroeder.com/new.html


#15

[quote=AmericanAtheist]Here is an idea. STOP TRYING TO CONVERT US!!! When you guys leave little notes and books in our lockers and on our desks, it really gets to be annoying.
[/quote]

Alleluia!!! As a Catholic for over 40 years, I’ll second that motion Mr. American Atheist. I have no desire to converting anyone. Why would God want us all to be the same? :slight_smile: Diversity seems to keep us “all” human. If God wanted you to be a Catholic then I faith enough to know God would have no problem in making that come true.

[size=3]I’m sorry that you’ve been plagued by annoyances that bring you pain. Try your best to cast aside your grievances and remember ‘life is short-lived’. There is a life outside the confines of these walls ~ Be happy![font=Arial][/font]

[/size]
Mary :slight_smile:


#16

[quote=ISABUS]Alleluia!!! As a Catholic for over 40 years, I’ll second that motion Mr. American Atheist. I have no desire to converting anyone. Why would God want us all to be the same? :slight_smile: Diversity seems to keep us “all” human. If God wanted you to be a Catholic then I faith enough to know God would have no problem in making that come true.

[size=3]I’m sorry that you’ve been plagued by annoyances that bring you pain.[/size] Try your best to cast aside your grievances and remember ‘life is short-lived’. There is a life outside the confines of these walls ~ Be happy![font=Arial][/font]

Mary :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Mary :tiphat:

Let’s assume you are one of the disciples, what would your response be to Jesus after this conversation?

Mark
**Chapter 1613 They returned and told the others; but they did not believe them either. 14 (But) later, as the eleven were at table, he appeared to them and rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart because they had not believed those who saw him after he had been raised. 15 He said to them, "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.

It seems like an act of mercy to share the Good News with our separated or atheist brothers. Am I missing something here?

Why would God want us all to be the same?

Good question. In one sense he doesn’t and you are very correct. Why else would have he made all of us with such beautiful diversity?

John 17
21] that they may** all be one**; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

[/font]Philippians 4
2 I beg of Evodia, and I beseech Syntyche, to be of one mind in the Lord

1 Peter 3
8 And in fine, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, being lovers of the brotherhood, merciful, modest, humble:

In another sense, Jesus does desire for us to be one as He and the Father are one. God is a God of unity and not division. Our unity comes when we are in one mind with the Truth, Jesus. Through the Church, the pillar and foundation of truth, God has established a way for diversity and unity at the same time while knowing what the Truth is.

If this is God’s desire, Mary, then shouldn’t it be ours as well?

[font=Times New Roman]I’m sorry that you’ve been plagued by annoyances that bring you pain.

I am also sorry, American Atheist, if the evangelization came as a result of pride and not as an act of charity and mercy. Let us remember that if Truth means we must change our ways, then pain will always be associated with the charity and mercy we show to others.

Mary, what are your thoughts?

May peace and happiness be granted to us all.

God :blessyou:


#17

John,

What I wrote in message 15 was placed in my heart and mind by Christ. I’ve had a very personal relationship with Jesus since I was a child. I am a child of the cross who puts all my trust in sweet Jesus to guide me, thus my faith in God commends my spirit to believe that all is possible. I know the Holy Spirit moves in miraculous ways unbeknownst to the ways of any human being. Therein resides my peace of mind regarding the salvation of mankind~ I BELIEVE in the ABSOLUTE POWER of GOD ~
I BELIEVE ~

Thank you,

Mary :slight_smile:


#18

[quote=AmericanAtheist]Here is an idea. STOP TRYING TO CONVERT US!!! When you guys leave little notes and books in our lockers and on our desks, it really gets to be annoying.
[/quote]

God converts we don’t.I see you got suspended,I am still praying that God lets you know he is there:) Please,come back and try not to get suspended;) Thankyou,again for saying it is okay with you that I pray for you.God Bless


#19

I would point to the history of Christianity itself. It was BORN out of persecution. All 12 (minus 1) of the apostles died horrible deaths. As well, there were thousands of martyrs who died for their faith at the very beggining of Christianity (Catholicism). This isn’t myth. It’s history! In fact, reading the Early Church Fathers is also extremely inspiring. They all regarded this religion as historical fact! The same cannot be said for many other religions. What other major religion was born out of such persecution? The answer…none. I would also point to the holiness of the Church throughout the ages…the unchanging doctrine…etc. Also, one could point to the numerous and undeniable miracles promulgated through the Catholic Church. In NO other faith will you find such phenomenon. Padre Pio is my favorite. A Modern day Stigmatist!!! That is amazing. An athiest friend of mine has asked for a good book about Padre Pio, and I believe that he could come to the faith through this marvelous saint. Not to mention the numerous Marian apparitions, miraculous cures, etc. As well, the Church has a LONG history of Eucharistic miracles…many of which have happened in present day. Just type in “Eucharistic Miracles” in a google image search, and you will find countless images which attest to the amazing truth of Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. As well, one could point to the huge number of incorruptable bodies. One can even go and see these “living” miracles for themseloves. --People who died hundreds of years ago, look just as if they died yesterday. As well, my grandpa’s cousin is St. Rafka of Lebanon. She had her eyes surgically removed, yet through a miracle, she regained her sight! And there are thousands of stories even more amazing. Anyway, besides all that, Catholic Teaching just plain makes sense. (I will comment that I have been criticized by other people on this forum for using miracles to prove the faith. But the early Church Fathers often used miracles as evidence for the faith. As well…didn’t Christ use signs to show us he was God?) Anyway, that’s just my two cents.


#20

[quote=ISABUS]I’ve had a very personal relationship with Jesus since I was a child. I am a child of the cross who puts all my trust in sweet Jesus to guide me, thus my faith in God commends my spirit to believe that all is possible. I know the Holy Spirit moves in miraculous ways unbeknownst to the ways of any human being. Therein resides my peace of mind regarding the salvation of mankind~ I BELIEVE in the ABSOLUTE POWER of GOD ~

[/quote]

Mary :wave:

:love: Named my first born after our Mother, I love that name :love:

“I am a child of the cross who puts all my trust in sweet Jesus to guide me, thus my faith in God commends my spirit to believe that all is possible.” This is a beautiful quote. :yup: My I ask you to pray for me so I can place all of my trust in Jesus. The “child of the cross,” what a great way to look at our relationship with Jesus.

I hope you would answer my following questions:

[list]
*]What is your response to the words of Jesus as it relates our commission to evangelize? "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned." Do we try to convert others or not?
[/list]

[list]
*]What are your thoughts to my response concerning "Why would God want us all to be the same?
[/list]

[list]
*]What are you trying to say here? “Therein resides my peace of mind regarding the salvation of mankind~ I BELIEVE in the ABSOLUTE POWER of GOD.” When we add your quote 'I have no desire to convert anyone," I wander if you believe that a merciful God would not allow someone to go to Hell. Do you believe in Hell? Just trying to clear up the confussion in my head.
[/list]
I would appreciate your responses.

God :blessyou:


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