Apologies of the Pope


#1

In the past Pope John Paul II has apologized to Jews for past wrongs of the Church.( I agree with that one.) He has apologized for the Church’s treatment of Galileo Galilei (not too sure here) and to Moslems for the Crusades. As I understand it there were twelve Crusades, and we (the Church that is) didn’t start it. The Holy Places were taken over by Moslems.

I have difficulty understanding why the Pope apologized for the Crusades. Can anyone shed any light on this apology.


#2

I think it has less to do with who started it, and more to do with how it ended up. Yes, the Muslims took over our holy places, but that did not necessarily justify us marching in for war. Furthermore, even if war was justified, the excesses of the war were not. Remember, the Crusades also did terrible damage to our Eastern bretheren, who were considered “not really Christian” by the ignorant Crusaders. It was a hot-headed and poorly thought out response/responses, often used to justify pillaging rather than truly reclaiming the holy sites. That’s what the Pope apologized for.


#3

There were twelve Crusades, surely they couldn’t all have been due to hot-headedness and be poorly thought out.


#4

Well, not all the Crusades were against the Muslims, and all of them produced what we would call war crimes. Again, the apology has less to do with intent, and more to do with the things the actions that were taken. I can mean the best in the world by hitting my wife for slapping me, and she DID start it, but that doesn’t in itself make it right, espescially if I knock out a couple teeth in the process.

The ideals of the Crusades, namely pilgrims being allowed to visit the holy land, do not match the reality, namely butcher, rape, and pillaging. The Church is right to apologize for putting forth such a disgusting effort in the name of a just cause.


#5

Remember the POPE IS APOLOGIZING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE STUPID THINGS. HOLY MOTHER CHURCH IS NOT MERELY THE SUM OF HER MEMBERS. THE MEDIA HAS JUMPED ON THIS AND IS PORTRAYING THE POPE AS APOLOGIZING FOR THE CHURCH HERSELF. WRONG. THE CHURCH AS THE BODY OF CHRIST, SACRAMENTALLY PRESENT TO ALL MEN IS SPOTLESS. THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL.


#6

I think the Church has come to the understanding that making captured infidels choose between baptism and death wasn’t the best way to spread the Gospel.


#7

The Pope has never apologized to the Muslims for the Crusades.
He apologized to the Eastern Orthodox for loss suffered during the Crusades. There is good reason for that the Crusades against the Muslims were just wars. The attacks against Byzantine Catholics and Jews were not justified. The muslims forced our hand that began the Crusades. But like many wars they become corrupted far beyond their intent. Witnees our own far in Iraq and the scandals in the prisons. surely that is not the intent of George Bush but it happended same thing here with the POpe and the Crusades. THe popes at the time condemend the violence againt the Byzantine catholics and innocent Jews so its like it wasn’t acknowledged before. The pope has apolgized to the Jews in just about every way possible. But he never did that to the Muslimss even though it was reported as such. I think he views that very differently and the the Muslim - Catholic conflict was forced on us by militant Islam.


#8

On a more current subject, the Pope should have offered an apology to those who suffered sexual abuse at the hands of those who they trusted the most. Also to reassign the Archbishop of Boston to a cushie new position and to permit him to participate at center stage indicates that the leadership just don’t get it. I am not saying that an individual needs to be thrown-away after making a mistake, but when you abuse and misuse your authority, you should at least keep a low profile so as not to cause further pain to those who were injured.

John


#9

John:
The Pope DID apologize to the victims of sexual abuse.
Cardinal Law doesn’t have a “cushy” job. . .he IS, after all, still a Cardinal, and used to being a pretty important one–this job of his is relatively minor and certainly not “important” or offering much of an opportunity for “advancement”. . .

And one must remember that Cardinal Law obviously confessed, did penance, and was forgiven.

Seems to me there are a lot of sour grapes here and “elder brothers” a la the Prodigal Son parable who are so concerned that somebody else is “getting away” with sin, getting pardoned “too easily”, getting something he “doesn’t deserve”, etc.

Do YOU know the mind of Cardinal Law? Do you know his soul?
What would it take to convince you that he “repented”–sackcloth? Ashes? Retirement to a dungeon?

Then think about this. . .any of the above are only OUTWARD SIGNS. If the Cardinal wore sackcloth, ashes, or lived in a dungeon, would it PROVE that he had repented? Of course not.

So please don’t be so quick to judge him. . .I don’t know his soul, but I pray to God for him. . .and for me. . .and now for you, too. May God forgive us our sins, and bring us to life everlasting, Amen.


#10

[quote=John Colean]On a more current subject, the Pope should have offered an apology to those who suffered sexual abuse at the hands of those who they trusted the most. Also to reassign the Archbishop of Boston to a cushie new position and to permit him to participate at center stage indicates that the leadership just don’t get it. I am not saying that an individual needs to be thrown-away after making a mistake, but when you abuse and misuse your authority, you should at least keep a low profile so as not to cause further pain to those who were injured.

John
[/quote]

Cardinal Law went from being the Archbishop of a major metropolitan area to being the Pator of a single church in Rome. I wouldn’t exactly call that a promotion. Granted the Church in question is a Basillica.

It is only speculation on my part, but I’d imagine he was reassigned to Rome not so much that he would have influence in Rome as that Rome would have influence (control) over him.

Chuck


#11

[quote=Tantum ergo]John:
The Pope DID apologize to the victims of sexual abuse.
Cardinal Law doesn’t have a “cushy” job. . .he IS, after all, still a Cardinal, and used to being a pretty important one–this job of his is relatively minor and certainly not “important” or offering much of an opportunity for “advancement”. . .

And one must remember that Cardinal Law obviously confessed, did penance, and was forgiven.

Seems to me there are a lot of sour grapes here and “elder brothers” a la the Prodigal Son parable who are so concerned that somebody else is “getting away” with sin, getting pardoned “too easily”, getting something he “doesn’t deserve”, etc.

Do YOU know the mind of Cardinal Law? Do you know his soul?
What would it take to convince you that he “repented”–sackcloth? Ashes? Retirement to a dungeon?

Then think about this. . .any of the above are only OUTWARD SIGNS. If the Cardinal wore sackcloth, ashes, or lived in a dungeon, would it PROVE that he had repented? Of course not.

So please don’t be so quick to judge him. . .I don’t know his soul, but I pray to God for him. . .and for me. . .and now for you, too. May God forgive us our sins, and bring us to life everlasting, Amen.
[/quote]

It was reported that the Pope did not apologize, but maybe the reporting was erroneous or you may have seen other reporting on this issue.

I cannot judge Cardinal Law’s Heart; however, when someone refuses to step down from his post for an extended period of time after the facts have been uncovered is just plain arrogant, to say the least.

You say that his current position is not important, but his position was apparently the reason given for allowing him to offer one of the nine masses for the Pope.

And yes, we are forgiven for our sins; however, the consequences to ourself and others will always remain. I am not suggesting that we consign him or anyone else to the local dugeon. I understand that he is a Cardinal, which is a high position, but in deference to those who have suffered he should maintain a low-profile. Additionally, since he is a Cardinal, he should be proactive in taking the appropriate measures.

John


#12

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